What to do with Bilbao?

[Master Zen]

I received news from nye, that GS rejected our proposal for positioning troops on Bilbao for one turn. He said it was "not goodwill towards those (RP) who had invited us to Bob".

So, what do we do? I am thinking this is all a ploy for GS to lure us into attacking them or doing something that would enable them to say the NAP was breached, scream bloody murder and declare war on us. I'm sure they're aching for that...

Thus, this decision presents a conundrum, a decision which will have us decide between logic and passion. On one side, we are sick and tired of fighting this war with our hands tied behind our backs. On the other, if we say "**** it" and walk into Bilbao's borders, all we're doing is giving in to what GS wants us to do.

Remember, the best thing we can do is not do what GS wants us to do: an exucse to break the NAP. They WANT us to break it. If we give in to the "**** it" argument, all we're doing is giving the game away by exposing us needlessly.

So please, it's not about cowering to a foreign power, it's doing the one thing that will frustrate their plans! They want a shot at us, what do you prefer: GS cities in Spain, or Port Isolation and Skulgaria wearing the red and blue shield?

Please, think before you vote. We can still win this war with or without Bilbao and it's stupid little mountain.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

What IDIOT asked them in the first place. All we had to do was move into it, then GS would have demanded we leave and then we would leave. Why on earth did ask them first?

My choice is not up there. "Since we already screwed up by asking them first, we have to avoid violating their borders and giving them the possibility of us violating their NAP."

[Hot_Enamel]

I say again ...

Public Announcement #1

The GoW does not recognize the Gathering Storm ownership of the Santiago & Bilbao. GS has no influence of control over these cities, and it is simply a cowardly tactic used by RP, in a desperate attempt to thwart the advancing armies of ND & GoW.

If GS wishes to enter the war on Bob, then we encourage them to do so openly in the public forum, state their allegiances, and declare war. This abuse of the game mechanics has surprised the GoW, and it is a disgrace that GS would so opening disregard their honour code and resort to such a cheezy tactic.

Then we just violate their borders.

Send a private note to GS that the NAP is still in effect, and as agreed we will not attack any units. However privately, the GoW is disgusted with their actions.

Spit on the honour code and call them poo poo heads as well.


If we dont want to do the public announcement ... then I say go around Bilbao, and we find another way in.


At the very least, we are taking the burdon off ND, as RP has to keep units on our front.

Send our new riders through ND and help on their front.

Request ND to use their MI to destroy Bilbao

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

I wish I had access to the most recent save or a map of the front to check out route paths................

[Donegeal]

How long do we have to decide?

[Hot_Enamel]

[Hot_Enamel]

ND gets their turn first

Turn #1
If their MI moves SE,
Then we have no choice but to go west.

Turn #2
Then ND moves east
We move onto the watch mountain

Turn #3
ND destroys Bilbao
We can then either kill RP if they have units in the clearing.
Attack Toledo
Or zoom directly south, across to the next mountain.
Attack Toledo

[Donegeal]

Guys... By turn three, Bilbao could have 2 Pike in it. That MI will die.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

We can avoid GS territory without slowing down progress, as the graphic shows. Whether or not RP places a unit on the grassland will slow us down a turn or two though. I suggest we follow this path to make it look like we are going for Toledo or Pamplona then strike fast on Madrid. The red x's show tiles we can pillage along the way.

EDIT: the 2/3 to the right of Toledo should be a 3/4 and the other 2/3's should be 4/5's.

And IF we tell GS ANYTHING, it should be "that we fully respect the wishes of our noble ally against Spain and wouldn't dream of violating their territory."

And in that spirit I would be willing to take over as Ambassador to ND and GS, assuming the title of Chief Ambassador of the Grand Alliance. We could post something official stating that MZ ruffled some of the Allies feathers and I am now chief liason to both of our allies against Spain.

[Panzer32]

Originally posted by donegeal
Guys... By turn three, Bilbao could have 2 Pike in it. That MI will die.

No it couldn't. The most it could have is 2 spearmen. Its not hooked up to Iron.

[Panzer32]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
I wish I had access to the most recent save or a map of the front to check out route paths................

umm... I attach them in the turn threads when we get them - http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...84#post2203384

OK, about the map Ghengis drew up. Just one thing - we can attack New Madrid one turn earlier. The tile N-N of Madrid is actually forest, so it will allow us to move there then move again. From our current position we can move (SW)-(S)-(S)-(S-S)-attack if we want to.

And in that spirit I would be willing to take over as Ambassador to ND and Spain, assuming the title of Chief Ambassador of the Grand Alliance. We could post something official stating that MZ ruffled some of the Allies feathers and I am now chief liason to both of our allies against Spain.

Liaison to our great ally, Spain, against Spain?? Are you thinking of a different team? Anyways... I've been sort of the unnoficial diplomat to ND, and would be willing to make it official. If Ghengis wants another untaken team I'd be fine with that.

[Hot_Enamel]

Originally posted by Panzer32


No it couldn't. The most it could have is 2 spearmen. Its not hooked up to Iron.

GS can ship over Pikes from their homeland...

4 movement galley that can travel through sea.
Bilbao is a great invasion point for them.
They can feed units in it like crazy.

If we decide to violate their territory, we can blockade Bilbao with our galleys, so that GS cant get their galleys in.

[UnOrthOdOx]

I am sure that GF was meaning to take over relations with GS. Since I have already asked MZ to find a replacement for me, I would gladly hand it over if he wants to deal with nye. (zeit is still MIA....)

[Hot_Enamel]

Another point....

We need to tell ND NOT to move their MI SE.

It will almost definately mean GS can ship in units and fortify Bilbao before ND can get there....but it will allow us to get into the action against RP 1 turn earlier.

ND can jump onto watch mountain if they want.
If the RP stack is on the grassland, he will die, but he gets to Bilbao in 3 turns instead of 4

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by Panzer32
OK, about the map Ghengis drew up. Just one thing - we can attack New Madrid one turn earlier. The tile N-N of Madrid is actually forest, so it will allow us to move there then move again. From our current position we can move (SW)-(S)-(S)-(S-S)-attack if we want to.

But we don't want them to know we are attacking Madrid until right before we do it.

If you want, I guess you could just forward them all our plans so they can prepare the best defense possible....

Originally posted by Panzer32 Liaison to our great ally, GS, against Spain?? Are you thinking of a different team? Anyways... I've been sort of the unnoficial diplomat to ND, and would be willing to make it official. If Ghengis wants another untaken team I'd be fine with that.

Yes, I believe if we continue to publicly express the concept that we consider GS, an ally of OURS against Spain we can sow some disension into the ranks of GS. They have members that will be opposed to this war and if can give them ammo to argue against increasing their involvement on Bob it could slow them down enough to make our objectives easier.

However, I was unaware that in addition to being Emperor, you were also the Ambassador to ND and GS (funny, according to the The Central Diplomacy Thread Master Zen is Ambassador to ND and UnOrthOdOx is Ambassador to GS, guess you forgot to tell them they were fired..), so I will withdraw my attempt to volunteer and content myself to nitpick at the actions I have issues with.

Have a nice day.