GS/ND/GoW

[UnOrthOdOx]

We need to set up a time for this to happen!

[UnOrthOdOx]

GS can make it today...I will TRY to make it. (lunch break at work...)

Honorable UnOrthOdOx,

1800 today works for me. I believe others will be able to come as well.

I'll let you know more soon,
Zeit.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

What time zone is that? I should be available sometime after around 5-6 hours from now. Although, as normal I will be pretty much on an observer basis. I have little to no authority/influence in either team's decisions or agreements. Meaning, I can say whatever I feel like.

[UnOrthOdOx]

GMT

Noon for me, Ill try during my lunch break

[Panzer32]

Its our normal chat time for us and ND; so ND can make it. I'll just email them so they know we're meeting with GS too.

[Hot_Enamel]

Have we had any word from GS at all, that they are considering joining in the fun ?

[Panzer32]

naw... they just wanted some cities on Bob. We told them we'd chat in about a week or so, to see if we really needed help in the war.

I'd post the chat log but I don't feel like it... it was a pretty boring chat.

[Master Zen]

doh, forgot to upload the chat

here it is:

Session Start: Thu Jul 17 13:03:55 2003
Session Ident: #gow_cofa
[13:03] * Now talking in #gow_cofa
[13:04] * Panzer32 has joined #gow_cofa
[13:05] * opdaway has joined #gow_cofa
[13:06] * [ND]Darek has joined #gow_cofa
[13:06] [[ND]Darek] oh i found you!
[13:06] [Panzer32] nice!
[13:06] [[ND]Darek] no PW so far
[13:07] [Panzer32] does Borc/Darekill know to come in here?
[13:07] [[ND]Darek] yes i know
[13:07] [opdaway] lo
[13:09] * [ND]Darek is now known as [ND]
[13:09] * [ND] is now known as [ND]Darek
[13:10] [[ND]Darek] Grrr
[13:10] [MasterZen] yep, undernet sucks
[13:12] * DeepO has joined #gow_cofa
[13:12] [MasterZen] anyone else from ND or GS coming?
[13:12] [DeepO] hi there!
[13:12] [MasterZen] doh!
[13:12] [DeepO]
[13:12] [opdaway] lo deepO
[13:12] [MasterZen] hey deep)
[13:12] [DeepO] lo
[13:12] [Panzer32] MZ, op me
[13:13] [DeepO] good to be in
[13:13] * MasterZen sets mode: +o Panzer32
[13:13] [DeepO] Zeit should be arriving shortly
[13:13] * Panzer32 sets mode: +s
[13:13] * zeit has joined #gow_cofa
[13:13] [DeepO] here you go
[13:13] [zeit] hello there
[13:13] [DeepO] I think that for GS that is about it...
[13:13] [opdaway] lo Zeit
[13:13] [zeit] have we all drifted here?
[13:13] [zeit] i'll give Shiber a call
[13:13] [MasterZen] yep
[13:14] * Panzer32 sets mode: +tn
[13:14] * Panzer32 sets mode: +k rpmeat
[13:14] [DeepO] will post a message in our forum where to find us...
[13:14] [[ND]Darek] Borc will come later. We don'T need to wait for him.
[13:15] [Panzer32] ok
[13:15] [DeepO] ok... OPD or Zeit, will you be GS's voice?
[13:15] [opdaway] Zeit
[13:15] [DeepO] ok
[13:16] [MasterZen] anybody know if UnO is coming?
[13:16] [DeepO] forget about that posting on our board, 'poly is down again
[13:17] [[ND]Darek] poly is down quite often in last days
[13:17] [DeepO] indeed...
[13:17] [Panzer32] I don't know about Uno
[13:17] [DeepO] might be best to have a backup for these kind of things
[13:18] [DeepO] as I suspect we want to have a diplo channel anyway...
[13:19] [DeepO] so... GS is complete... ND doesn't need to wait, GoW?
[13:19] [DeepO] let's get the show on the road
[13:19] [[ND]Darek] yes let us show the road.
[13:19] [MasterZen] ok, let's start
[13:20] * opdaway is now known as [GS}OPD
[13:20] [zeit] very well
[13:20] * [GS}OPD is now known as [GS]OPD
[13:20] [MasterZen] first of all a prayer:
[13:20] * zeit is now known as [GS]zeit
[13:20] [MasterZen] May the valiant troops of GoW and ND survive battle without harm,
[13:20] [[GS]zeit] in the spirit of the spanish catholics, maybe?
[13:20] [MasterZen] May our faithful friends from the GS prosper in peace
[13:21] [[ND]Darek] we are islamic mind you?
[13:21] [MasterZen] May our treacherous enemies from RP be squashed like bugs
[13:21] [MasterZen] Salaam
[13:21] [DeepO] Amen
[13:21] [MasterZen] Allah Ackbar
[13:21] [[ND]Darek] at least we roleplay to be islamic
[13:21] * SirRalph has joined #gow_cofa
[13:22] [Panzer32] Do you do Jihad against RP?
[13:22] [SirRalph] hello
[13:22] [Panzer32] hey SR
[13:22] [DeepO] hii SR!
[13:22] [[GS]zeit] hi SR!
[13:22] [[ND]Darek] kind of
[13:22] [[ND]Darek] hi SR
[13:22] [MasterZen] hey SR!
[13:24] [MasterZen] ok, well, now that we're all here...
[13:24] [[ND]Darek] let us pray again?
[13:24] [DeepO]
[13:24] * MasterZen wishes he had UnO's agenda...
[13:24] [[ND]Darek] no not again!
[13:24] [MasterZen] oh oh...
[13:25] [[GS]zeit] I guess we could start with some brief update
[13:25] [[GS]zeit] on the happening on the front(s)
[13:25] [MasterZen] ok
[13:25] [MasterZen] no combat so far, just the war declarations
[13:25] [[GS]zeit] troop movement?
[13:26] [[ND]Darek] this turn our troops enter spanish territory.
[13:26] [MasterZen] ours too
[13:26] [MasterZen] we suspect RP is much weaker than they appear
[13:26] [MasterZen] they've been sending peace feelers to us
[13:27] [[GS]zeit] already?
[13:27] [[ND]Darek] they are still trying to ally with us
[13:27] [MasterZen] yep, they want us to "reconsider" our approach and backstab ND instead :P
[13:27] [[GS]zeit] I guess Togas is not used to combat beyond that fought with words
[13:27] [[GS]zeit]
[13:27] [MasterZen] I guess
[13:28] [MasterZen] there's no way out of it though. GoW won't stand for anything than the total destruction of RP
[13:28] [[ND]Darek] so do we.
[13:28] [[GS]zeit] why is that, wouldn't you settle for just crippling them?
[13:28] [[GS]zeit] (just asking)
[13:28] [MasterZen] you should hear all the crap I have to hear every night in the chat from RPers...
[13:28] [[ND]Darek] We don't go at war easy but if we start one it ends either in our destruction or that of our enemys.
[13:29] [[ND]Darek] at least as long as they do not flee to Vox
[13:29] [[GS]zeit] hmm.. a true islamic jihad, then
[13:30] [[GS]zeit] what about the spoils?
[13:30] [MasterZen] yeah, we've had enough of their deceit
[13:30] [[GS]zeit] this was of course just a tease from RP, but i assume it could be a real problem for you- to divide them
[13:30] [MasterZen] all that has been settled for
[13:31] [[ND]Darek] we have agreed to a map that let us shar Borconia in a fair way.
[13:31] [MasterZen] both teams shall be fairly and equally compensanted
[13:32] [[GS]zeit] what is your estimate for the duration of the war?
[13:32] [[ND]Darek] this war was planned millenia ago.
[13:32] [[GS]zeit] you've said RP seems weaker than expected
[13:32] [MasterZen] well, we're not taking this lightly
[13:33] [[GS]zeit] of course- they are not exactly a weakling- and distance is a problem
[13:33] [MasterZen] we expect them to fight, and fight hard
[13:33] [[ND]Darek] we have no idea how long it will last. war's tend to be longer than you think and somtimes they are shorter than you hope.
[13:33] [MasterZen] but we have reason to believe they are 1) strapped for cash 2) militarily caught off guard
[13:34] * nye has joined #gow_cofa
[13:34] [[GS]zeit] why is that?
[13:34] [nye] lower case!
[13:34] [DeepO] hi nye!
[13:34] [DeepO]
[13:34] [nye] hello
[13:34] [MasterZen] yo yo yo!
[13:34] [[GS]zeit] welcome aboard!
[13:34] [[ND]Darek] hi
[13:35] [MasterZen] how many turns did the Vox-GS war last?
[13:35] [DeepO] 23
[13:36] [DeepO] hmmm.. make that 21
[13:37] [[GS]zeit] but then again- you have been preparing more than Vox has, I hope
[13:37] [MasterZen] well, I can't guess how long this one will take
[13:37] [MasterZen] but there should be a point in which it should be obvious that the war is won/lost
[13:38] [[GS]zeit] yes, but since this is an utter-destruction war, it should take longer
[13:38] [MasterZen] well, the odds are totally against them: they're facing 2 civs each one the equal of their power, who on top of it all get their GAs and have prepared for this
[13:40] [[GS]zeit] just taking a look at the map...
[13:40] [MasterZen] plus, it seems that allying with ND seemed the most uttely illogical thing to do. They still ask me why we did it, that it makes no sense... haha
[13:42] [[ND]Darek] that is what they tell us too no matter of the fact that an allieance with them would be as illogical than the alliance with GoW
[13:42] [[GS]zeit] when do you plan to make your attack on RP's first city?
[13:44] [MasterZen] soon enough
[13:44] [[GS]zeit] I mean- do you want to make it a quick blitz or try to destroy as much as their army on the first fights?
[13:45] [[ND]Darek] that depends upon their moves.
[13:45] [MasterZen] we're going with a combination of lure-and-destroy, and taking out their weak cities. Thus, it would be like blitzkrieg in that we're not going to stick around mauling a big pike-defended walled city like that...
[13:46] [MasterZen] our Riders give us the mobility we need to afford those kinds of slogs
[13:46] [MasterZen] *avoid
[13:46] [[GS]zeit] so you'd stick to targets of opportunities, even if that means not getting ahead
[13:46] [[GS]zeit] ?
[13:46] [[ND]Darek] Ansar Warriors are just as fast
[13:47] [MasterZen] well we can't say right now what RP is going to do, forutnately we're attacking on two foronts, they'll be hard pressed to defend successfuly both
[13:48] [[GS]zeit] we assumed GoW would go for Toledo first, is that so?
[13:48] [MasterZen] it's an option, Bilbao-Madrid is an alternative. Toledo would be good as it cuts their eastern cities from the center and the west
[13:49] [MasterZen] the idea is to threaten as many objectives as possible simultaneously, that weay we get the luxury of choosing which one to attack
[13:50] [[GS]zeit] you mean NewM, right?
[13:50] [MasterZen] yeah
[13:50] [[GS]zeit] what about help from Lego- is that an option for you
[13:50] [MasterZen] the way our stack is positioned, we are perfectly capable of attacking either Toledo or Bilbao on the same turn
[13:50] [[GS]zeit] from Lego to RP, that is
[13:51] [MasterZen] vondrack has assured me that Lego has no intention of getting involved. of course, that can be a ruse.
[13:52] [[GS]zeit] yes- but it would probably trouble ND more, with Lego on the west
[13:52] [[ND]Darek] They told us that they want to keep off of Borconia.
[13:52] [[ND]Darek] we are at good terms withthem. at least we think so.
[13:52] [MasterZen] we are too
[13:52] [[GS]zeit] what about monetary help for RP, this could solve their cashflow problem you mentioned...
[13:53] [[GS]zeit] any ideas on that?
[13:53] [MasterZen] that is a possibility
[13:53] [[GS]zeit] or maybe Chivalry...
[13:54] [MasterZen] not likely, we traded them Chiv and attached a no-trade clause even longer than the one we attached to you
[13:54] [[GS]zeit] As for us- we have no intentions of lending them a hand
[13:55] [MasterZen] good, I'll be glad to see how they've dug their own hole by lying to everyone
[13:56] [[GS]zeit] we've no desire to help this conflict stretch longer
[13:57] [MasterZen] me neither
[13:57] [[ND]Darek] we are not the big war fans. But what has to be, has to be
[13:58] [[GS]zeit] Like UnO said- its more about interests than that- they have kept a huge portion of Bob for themselves- they should back it with good diplomacy, but they havn't
[13:58] [MasterZen] at least not lying-hypocritical diplomacy, I think that's the difference
[13:59] [MasterZen] like GoW, I feel we have used diplomacy as our principal weapon, but we don't want to give the impression on teams that we say one thing to them then say an entrely different thing to the other slandering them
[13:59] [[GS]zeit] well, we don't need to get into that here- we've all experienced their diplo-acts at some point...
[13:59] [MasterZen] because ultimately everyone will find out and get pissed at them. Which is why this is happening to RP. No team that I know of has love fo RP
[14:00] [[GS]zeit] is there anything you want to discuss with us- something you wish to bring up?
[14:01] [MasterZen] well, we wanted to see if you had discussed the possibility of undertaking military action against RP too, and if so, on what terms.
[14:02] [[GS]zeit] we have considered this, as you can probably imagine
[14:03] [[GS]zeit] would you both approve of such intervention?
[14:03] [[GS]zeit] (GoW-ND)
[14:03] [MasterZen] depends on the terms.
[14:03] [MasterZen] and I can't speak for ND
[14:03] [[ND]Darek] I second that
[14:03] [[GS]zeit] what do you have in mind?
[14:04] [MasterZen] well, we have 3 possibilites
[14:04] [[ND]Darek] we would have som luxurys to share.
[14:04] [[GS]zeit] i can say that we would definitely ask for a portion of RP's territory
[14:04] [MasterZen] 1) "scare" - simply send some galleys, scare the crap out of them, hopefully they'll lure troops over there
[14:04] [MasterZen] 2) joint operations - send troops, fight with us
[14:05] [[GS]zeit] I doubt they'll move any forces with no real imminent threat, so i suppose 1 will be inneffective
[14:05] [MasterZen] 3) "peacekeeping" - send troops once RP is on the brink of defeat, that should deal them a death blow and they'll hopefully surrender their last cities
[14:05] [[ND]Darek] aportion of the territory would be hard to accept for us.
[14:05] [nye] why is that, Darekill?
[14:05] [[GS]zeit] DareKill- won't you have enough of RP already?
[14:06] [[GS]zeit] i mean, RP is HUGE
[14:07] [[ND]Darek] well we have to share borconia with GoW we have managed in hard negotiations to do that. if we give any territory to you all of this would be void and we have to start anew.
[14:07] [[ND]Darek] your territory is not so small...
[14:07] [nye] we would not be looking for large chuncks, Darekill
[14:07] [[GS]zeit] but definitely problematic to defend- as it is a long strip
[14:08] [[GS]zeit] we're looking for a strip of coastal area, that is of strategic significance for us
[14:08] [[ND]Darek] defnd against whom? we are not looking for more territory.
[14:08] [MasterZen] why so? how does a strip of coastal area make GS more secure?
[14:09] [[GS]zeit] after RP is gone, the game is not over, as far as i know
[14:09] [[GS]zeit] wars will still be part of the game, and GS wishes to keep its ass covered, so to speak
[14:10] [[ND]Darek] so do we and give gs a part of borconia isn't that good an idea
[14:10] [nye] well, darekill
[14:10] [SirRalph] well... why else would we help you? do you have an offer?
[14:11] [nye] some parts of rp are much closer to important bits of gs than of ND
[14:11] [MasterZen] agreed. but a small strip of coastal land seems more like a potential beachhead than a defensive bastion. If someone invades GS that little strip is worthless
[14:11] [nye] it prevents the invasion from having come from there
[14:11] [MasterZen] what we had proposed is that this land be temporary. Until we, and if we, undertake action against that "other" civ
[14:11] [nye] or do you think we do not know our own position and priorities?
[14:12] [MasterZen] agreed, but invasions can come both ways
[14:12] [nye] true
[14:12] [[ND]Darek] we could have trade agreements. MPPs+NAPs Luxurys to share technology to exchange ther is so much more to give you but territory
[14:12] [MasterZen] hence our own security concerns
[14:12] [nye] and we are far from anything important to both ND and GoW
[14:12] [MasterZen] would you consider it temporary until you get the big chuck of Lego?
[14:13] [SirRalph] what will we do during this time? build your infrastructure?
[14:13] [nye] much of it, possibly yes
[14:14] [nye] there is a very small part of rp that we deem strategically vital
[14:14] [nye] and do not want to see in anyones hands but our own

[Master Zen]

...continued

[14:14] [MasterZen] the Bilbao-Madrid area I suppose
[14:14] [nye] no. not bilbao
[14:14] [nye] south
[14:14] [MasterZen] around Barcelona?
[14:15] [nye] where there are 2 lux, and 1 turn crossings to stormia
[14:16] [[GS]zeit] Barc-Valencia, i believe
[14:16] [MasterZen] ok
[14:16] [nye] up to new madrid
[14:17] [MasterZen] well, you are aware that's a pretty big chunk
[14:17] [nye] not really, compared to all of bob
[14:17] [nye] and it is a lot of plains and desert
[14:17] [MasterZen] not all of bob is colonized
[14:18] [nye] we assume it will be
[14:18] [[GS]zeit] you don't excpect to get their entire cities, right?
[14:18] [[ND]Darek] well if you want some pices of borconia would you consider it fair that we get each a city on estonia?
[14:18] [Panzer32] so you would want Barcelona, Valencia, and New Madrid?
[14:19] [nye] why? did you sned help to slay vox?
[14:19] [nye] panzer, yes
[14:19] [Panzer32] why Valencia? There are no 1 turn crossings
[14:20] [MasterZen] of course in exchange for that you'd have to invervene you know? If no deal regarding military intervention is reached, I don't imagine us supporting a GS presence on the continent.
[14:20] [Panzer32] oh, the lux
[14:20] [Panzer32] what if, hypothetically, we said you could have them if you captured them yourselves?
[14:20] [nye] that is understood
[14:21] [nye] panzer. we could talk about it
[14:21] [[GS]zeit] "you get what you fight for",
[14:21] [MasterZen] hehe
[14:21] [MasterZen] all of this is of course just ideas. Nothing definite. I don't want anyone to lose their cool over things that are nowhere near being concrete.
[14:21] [nye] agreed
[14:22] [[GS]zeit] you're talking with the GS, remember?
[14:22] [MasterZen] you're talking to me, remember? :P
[14:23] [[GS]zeit] as for the Lux- you don't need spices, but we do
[14:25] [MasterZen] yes we do, you think that squid we're going to capture is going to taste good without any spices?? :P
[14:25] [[GS]zeit] so,is there a basis for negotiation, regarding that strip of coast- could that work for both ND and GoW?
[14:25] [MasterZen] here's an idea:
[14:26] [[ND]Darek] let's hear it.
[14:26] [MasterZen] you get Valencia. You get all the free luxes both ND and GoW have and you don't. We agree to a NAP while that city is on our continent. Contract ends after the successful conclusion of a war with Lego.
[14:27] [MasterZen] We can still give you the free luxes after the Lego war
[14:28] [MasterZen] with RP and Lux destroyed there's only 4 civs we each can trade a lux to
[14:28] [[GS]zeit] hmm.. a strip of coastal land, maybe, perhaps Valencia+Barcelona?
[14:28] [nye] MZ. we deem the area vital. strategically
[14:28] [MasterZen] nye: so do we, as I said, invasions go both ways
[14:28] [nye] mz. we can't amhip you from there. you can us
[14:29] [MasterZen] why can't you? it's a galley trip away..
[14:30] [[ND]Darek] there will soon be larger ships too.
[14:30] [nye] i am not going to argue about why gs feels the area important. i have told you.
[14:30] [[ND]Darek] I still do not like the thought of GS on borconia.
[14:30] [[ND]Darek] nopt if it is forever.
[14:30] [[ND]Darek] temporarily maybe but not for all times.
[14:30] [MasterZen] no, I understand why you feel it vital. But our security concerns are vital too.
[14:32] [MasterZen] well, let's get some agreement here, the idea I proposed, can it be a "start"? I mean, can we start negotiating from that point?
[14:32] [nye] not really, mz
[14:32] [nye] it does not address gs's concerns
[14:33] [nye] i am puzzeled why it is necessary to keep bob to 2 civs
[14:33] [nye] that is a massive amount of land
[14:33] [Panzer32] so you want all 3 cities or nothing?
[14:33] [nye] those are the areas we deem vital.
[14:33] [[ND]Darek] i'm puzzeled why the largest nation in the game needs some of borconia.
[14:33] [nye] there were other areas we like, but can live happily without
[14:34] [MasterZen] and like I said, Bob is far from being entirely colonized
[14:34] [nye] the future, Darekill. count tiles.
[14:34] [SirRalph] that is not an argument. its a matter of time
[14:34] [MasterZen] you have 18 cities alone in the GS lands, no Bob civ has that amount
[14:34] [MasterZen] yes but time makes them productive too, it's not the same to have 30 ****ty cities than 15 strong ones
[14:34] [nye] tiles support pop. count tiles
[14:35] [nye] brb
[14:36] [MasterZen] if we give you 3 cities, what guarantee do we have that's not going to be used for a massive invasion by GS?
[14:36] [Panzer32] who has the save, anyways?
[14:36] [[GS]zeit] pop is real resource- and Bob's fertile lands certainly support more than stormia's
[14:36] [[GS]zeit] even when devided to 2
[14:36] [DeepO] don't forget corruption... we're long stretched
[14:36] [MasterZen] agreed, but will you agree this to be temporary until you get lego?
[14:37] [[GS]zeit] maybe, i can't say for certain, as they say in arabic
[14:37] [[GS]zeit] shwoye shwoye- one step at a time
[14:38] [MasterZen] it'll be hard for us to accept anything as permanent...
[14:39] [[GS]zeit] i can understand that, but all this talk about lego- its just a plan, who knows what'll happen by that time...
[14:41] [MasterZen] well, unless you have other plans, I honestly don't see a better alternative than Lego being next
[14:41] [DeepO] GS?
[14:41] [MasterZen] they're the civ most likely to win if left alone
[14:42] [DeepO] that may be true
[14:42] [DeepO] but we have little assurances we're so safe
[14:42] [DeepO] and given the tile count
[14:42] [MasterZen] look at it this way,
[14:42] [MasterZen] if we don't reach any agreement regarding intervention and settlement on Bob, how is that going to make you any safer?
[14:43] [DeepO] MZ, no offense, but having an agreement regarding intervention is a 'gift' from us
[14:43] [DeepO] we could very well take RP if we wanted to
[14:43] [DeepO] but that is not our plan...
[14:43] * Borc has joined #gow_cofa
[14:44] [DeepO] hi Borc
[14:44] [DeepO] maybe you could get us out of this impasse
[14:44] [SirRalph] hello Borc
[14:44] [Borc] hi, had to install mirc first at home
[14:44] [MasterZen] hehe
[14:44] [[ND]Darek] hi borc.
[14:44] [MasterZen] hello Borc
[14:44] * Borc is now known as [ND]Borc
[14:45] [[ND]Darek] We ar talking baout how GS can support opur war with RP.
[14:45] [MasterZen] I don't see it so much as an impasse simply as this is not an easy topic to deal with.
[14:45] [DeepO] agreed
[14:45] [MasterZen] Both of us have our own security needs in mind, and it conflicts with the other's
[14:45] [[ND]Darek] GS want's a part of Borconia. three citys.
[14:45] [DeepO] which we'll happily support your war for
[14:45] [nye] back
[14:45] [nye] hi borc
[14:45] [[ND]Borc] spain cities?
[14:46] [SirRalph] yes
[14:46] [[ND]Borc] hi nye!
[14:46] [MasterZen] and it's quite understandable each of us is paranoid of the other. You have the biggest army right now, whereas the possibilty of Bob owned by 2 civs righfully scares you.
[14:46] [MasterZen] in that sense, neither of us is really being unreasonable.
[14:46] [DeepO] of course, that would leave 2 civs with about double the tile count of our own
[14:47] [DeepO] and with Lego still in this game, it would degrade us to ths smallest civ...
[14:47] [DeepO] after Vox, of course
[14:48] [MasterZen] hehe
[14:48] [SirRalph] we're glad to entertain you, mz
[14:49] [MasterZen] :P
[14:50] [MasterZen] many years of negotiating has taught me that 99% of the time there is a middle ground. And that the other 1% is so damn obvious there isn't it is hardly worth starting to negotiate at all.
[14:51] [DeepO] there is a middle gground, for sure
[14:51] [DeepO] maybe that is our problem
[14:51] [DeepO] we know what you would want as a maximum
[14:52] [DeepO] you want Bob to your own, and our help to take out RP
[14:52] [DeepO] furtherr, you want to make sure we don't backstab you in any way, taking advantage of the situation
[14:52] [DeepO] We fully understand this
[14:52] [MasterZen] good
[14:52] [DeepO] and want to accomadte you
[14:52] [MasterZen] I knew we were getting to each other
[14:53] [DeepO] so... we ask for seeing our PoV too
[14:53] [DeepO] we can't have 2 civs on Bob, controlling too much territory and all the uxes
[14:53] [DeepO] without any assurances
[14:53] [SirRalph] assurances are nothing
[14:53] [DeepO] further, we have a large amry that is wasting money in upkeep
[14:53] [MasterZen] in writing they are
[14:53] [DeepO] and a couple of StormHawks with itchy fingers
[14:54] [DeepO] assurances in writing? Sorry...
[14:54] [DeepO] much better to hold a couple of civs
[14:54] [DeepO] with not too much tiles
[14:54] [DeepO] and some (not all) luxes
[14:54] [nye] cities, i think you menat
[14:54] [DeepO]
[14:54] [DeepO] yeah...
[14:54] [nye] *ment
[14:54] [DeepO] so.. maybe there is a middle ground
[14:55] [MasterZen] so, I think a tradeoff is in place here: we tradeoff you having cities, you tradeoff that they be temporary until Lego is gone
[14:55] [DeepO] but IMHO we have given your PoV a lot of thought
[14:55] [DeepO] and perhaps you could give ours some PoV as well?
[14:55] [DeepO] that could be possible...
[14:55] [nye] mz, the temporary issue. will the land move and be further from stormia?
[14:55] [MasterZen] we will, trust me. In fact this will take quite some time
[14:56] [MasterZen] it is doubtful we will agree on anything today, but this is all a start. Big plans take time to lay out
[14:56] [DeepO] but plans are plans...
[14:56] [DeepO] and big pplans involving Lego are difficult
[14:56] [DeepO] although we fully support the discussion
[14:56] [DeepO] we want to reach some agreement with both of you
[14:57] [DeepO] let this noty be misunderstood
[14:58] [MasterZen] it is understood by me that this is a touchy subject, that we are smart and mature enough to eventually reach some sort of agreement, but also that it will take time.
[14:58] [DeepO] agreed, mz
[14:59] [DeepO] but how much time do we have?
[14:59] [DeepO] I mean... RP is going down
[14:59] [DeepO] and we better have an agreement before laying out plans where to invade them
[14:59] [DeepO] (if at all)
[14:59] [MasterZen] perhaps sooner than we think, perhaps later... but I think the first turns will be crucial
[14:59] [DeepO] agreed again
[15:00] [DeepO] which is another concern of us
[15:00] [DeepO] we don't want to jump in too late
[15:00] [MasterZen] the overall destruction of RP might take time, but there's always a point in which you know your opponent is defeated
[15:00] [DeepO] and give tyou the feeling that we took advantage
[15:00] [[ND]Darek] we have to discuss that in our forum too you know.
[15:00] [DeepO] we want some RP meat, damnit!
[15:00] [MasterZen] hahaha, I see you have no love for them either
[15:00] [DeepO] are you kidding?
[15:00] [MasterZen] and its not meat, it's SQUID.
[15:00] [DeepO] I don't hold anything against them personally
[15:01] [MasterZen] nah, just as a team
[15:01] [MasterZen] most of my english-speaking poly friends are RPers, so it really kinda turns my stomach to know I'm at war with them. But it's just a game.
[15:01] [DeepO] indeed...
[15:01] [DeepO] and one RP will not win
[15:02] [DeepO] but they can still do a lot of damaga
[15:02] [DeepO] you'd be surprised to see how much Vox damaged us
[15:02] [MasterZen] yep
[15:02] [DeepO] so... here's timing again
[15:02] [[GS]zeit] just by having us wasted the GA
[15:02] [DeepO] if this war drags out so long that both of your GAs are over
[15:02] [DeepO] and their UU is coming up... auch
[15:03] [MasterZen] if they survive till then, I expect them to be totally crippled...
[15:03] [DeepO] one sec, I have to go for the moment
[15:05] [DeepO] sorry guys, I'll try to keep an eye on this, but I have to leave...
[15:05] [MasterZen] ok, don't worry
[15:05] [MasterZen] are you guys up for a later chat, say next week?
[15:06] [[ND]Borc] would be great!
[15:06] [MasterZen] we can inform you on how the war is going and we can start brushing up on this deal
[15:06] [[ND]Darek] as i said before we have to discuss that at home in ND.
[15:06] [MasterZen] plus, we'd have a better idea if RP is going to collapse like a deck of cards or if its going to be one hard slog
[15:06] [[GS]zeit] sure thing- we would do so as well
[15:06] [nye] ok. a further chat would be good
[15:06] [nye] 7 days might be a bit long
[15:06] [[GS]OPD] depends how quickly the turns will be played
[15:06] [MasterZen] I don't think they'll be played pretty quick
[15:07] [[ND]Darek] we take our time and we need it. it's war after all.
[15:07] [MasterZen] that's why 1 week isn't as long as it seems, plus with all the problems Poly has been ahving..
[15:07] [[GS]zeit] it remains to be seen- but i share your estimate on RP's standing firm for some time
[15:08] [[GS]OPD] Is 1800gmt ok for you guys again??
[15:08] [[GS]zeit] i really don't know what time is good for you guys- but perhaps the beggining of next week?
[15:09] [MasterZen] 1800 seems fine
[15:09] [[ND]Darek] 1800gmt is the time we startet today right?
[15:09] [Panzer32] yes
[15:09] [[ND]Darek] thats good for me.
[15:09] [[ND]Borc] ok.. next thuirsday right?
[15:10] [MasterZen] if things speed up we can have it before
[15:10] [MasterZen] me and nye are in the ISDG chat every night so re-scheduling would not be a problem
[15:10] [nye] yes. Borc and Darekill...
[15:10] [[GS]OPD] cool
[15:11] [nye] i can be found many times in irc in your morning
[15:11] [nye] i think OPD will be getting in touch with you, for us. soon
[15:11] [[GS]OPD] have to keep up to date with developments
[15:12] [[GS]OPD] hmmn 1 sec
[15:12] [MasterZen] don't worry, whenever you need an official war-update, contact us
[15:13] [[GS]zeit] I'm having a trip to Italy, so i'll be off-duty for a while,
[15:13] [[GS]OPD] who has the save now?
[15:13] [[ND]Darek] we have it but not for much longer
[15:14] [[GS]OPD] will ND be attacking RP this turn?
[15:16] [MasterZen] patience my blood-lusting friend...
[15:16] [[GS]zeit]
[15:16] [[ND]Darek] not this turn but next.
[15:17] [[GS]OPD] cheers
[15:17] [MasterZen] I'm going to be afk for about 10 min. brb
[15:17] [[GS]OPD] ok so 1800 GMT next thursday
[15:17] [[GS]OPD] here again.
[15:17] [MasterZen] yep
[15:17] [MasterZen] same GoW-time
[15:17] [MasterZen] same GoW-channel
[15:18] [[GS]zeit] have fun everyone, i gtg, bye!
[15:18] [MasterZen] ok, thanks for coming all of you
[15:18] [[ND]Borc] ok... i have to leave also... lets rock!
[15:18] [[ND]Darek] fine.
[15:18] * [GS]zeit has quit IRC (Quit)
[15:18] * [ND]Borc has left #gow_cofa
[15:19] * MasterZen is now known as MZ|brb
[15:20] [nye] bye
[15:20] * [ND]Darek has left #gow_cofa
[15:20] * nye has left #gow_cofa
[15:20] [DeepO] woops.. I'm I the only one still in here from GS?
[15:21] [DeepO] I'll leave then, so you guys can safely discuss things
[15:21] [SirRalph] me too
[15:21] [DeepO] nice to have chatted with you, let's certainly do it again later
[15:21] [SirRalph] bye
[15:21] [DeepO] bye
[15:21] [MZ|brb] yes, we will
[15:21] * SirRalph has left #gow_cofa (bye)
[15:21] [MZ|brb] thanks for coming
[15:21] [DeepO] my pleasure
[15:21] * DeepO has left #gow_cofa
[15:29] [[GS]OPD] Panzer?
[15:30] [[GS]OPD] MZ?
[15:31] * [GS]OPD has left #gow_cofa
[15:35] * MZ|brb is now known as MasterZen
Session Close: Thu Jul 17 15:35:29 2003