GS Chat Agenda

[UnOrthOdOx]

(This is as much for me as for anyone else, feel free to make suggestions/changes. yes Im an organization freak in case you didn't already know)

1. Status of War:
   1. History of Vox landing on Bob. (Do not discuss payment for City, make it sound as if the city were a seperate transaction from whoever payed us to help Vox)
   2. Our mercenary role. 4 more units committed
   3. DO NOT disclose our employer or the compensation
   4. History of 'deception'. Vox wanted screenshots, even falsified, we refused.
   5. We are not interested in GS continent or the war, only fulfilling obligation.
   
2. Status of Research:
   1. Chivalry: Taking heat from several teams for not refusing to deal with GS
   2. Assure them the deal is still on
   3. Inquire as to their research path and ask if we can cooperate.
   
3. Status of Vox:
   1. Northern Bob unacceptable, period.
   2. 'discuss' southern bob in attempt to discern if GS has our map
   3. Suggest Legoland on a point of logic: they are too dangerous if allowed to grow peacefull
   
4. Status of Bob:
   1. Present 'rumors' of hostility on Bob in attempt to discern how much they know.
   2. Ask them to verify with us before listening to propoganda that is sure to follow should hostilities resume
   3. Let them know that we will be keeping all obligations to all teams despite rumors.
   4. Ask their opinion on who we should support should hostilities arise...
   5. Ask them to at least remain neutral should hostilities begin, inquire on possible support, either open or otherwise.
   
5. -GS' oncoming harbor completion and the prospect of Luxury and Iron trade.

Analasis of opponents

NYE: Tends to act reserved. Only occasionally given to outbursts, would prefer to allow us to talk ourselves into trouble and look for flaws in what we say.

nbarcly: More emotional, tends to speak his mind easily.

GS attitude: Feels the entire world is against them. Becomming more reserved in their Foreign Relations as they feel everyone will contest anything they say. Could possibly use this to our own advantage.

Possible Questions and Answers

1. 1. Q. Why would we accept the mercenary job?
   A. We did not fear Vox incursion on Bob, but were uncertain because it allowed both ND and RP to have units in our area, ostensibly to repell Vox. Would those units have peacefully returned home? We were faced with either helping or facing 30 Immortals +ND and RP forces all on our borders.
   
2. shouldn't be a problem here.
   
3. 1. Q. Are we opposed to Vox destruction?
   A. Are we? help me out here.
   
4. 1. Q. What kinds of things could we hear?
   A. We don't know, but fear a similar propoganda campaign to the Voxian one against GS.
   
   2. Q. who are we leaning towards supporting
   A. DO NOT ANSWER (duh) State that we are trying to get a feel for who the rest of the world would support first.
   
5. 1.Q. What we can/are willing to trade
   A. Im totally lost here as well...

RULES OF CONDUCT

• Remain Polite: Chances are they will object to the Mercenaries, remain polite and discuss with logic, do not show anger
• Be Understanding If they become angry, at least profess to understand. Now is not the time to compound anger by creating a debate or becomming defensive.
• Remain Open: Do not burn any bridges right now, listen with an open mind, or at least appear to.
• Do Not Interrupt: Allow them to finish their thoughts before commenting. Take this time to think of a polite response.

[Master Zen]

I agree with most points except:

A.3: making "double contracts" is not good. It's effectively backstabbing even though there's a loophole, no team will ever trust us with those kinds of deals again if we make it obvious we don't plan on honoring the essence of them.

The rest is perfect I look forward to this chat

[UnOrthOdOx]

Again, just for my own reference to control myself...suggestions welcome.yes, I make these for myself before meetings/presentations in RL too...

RULES OF CONDUCT

• Remain Polite: Chances are they will object to the Mercenaries, remain polite and discuss with logic, do not show anger
• Be Understanding If they become angry, at least profess to understand. Now is not the time to compound anger by creating a debate or becomming defensive.
• Remain Open: Do not burn any bridges right now, listen with an open mind, or at least appear to.
• Do Not Interrupt: Allow them to finish their thoughts before commenting. Take this time to think of a polite response.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Master Zen
I agree with most points except:

A.3: making "double contracts" is not good. It's effectively backstabbing even though there's a loophole, no team will ever trust us with those kinds of deals again if we make it obvious we don't plan on honoring the essence of them.

The rest is perfect I look forward to this chat

You're the boss,

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx

You're the boss,

We might be able to bring up the issue indirectly only to see their response, what I'm getting at is that no matter if they were to agree on it, I'd think the honorable thing would be to refurse.

And note that I'm not about to rant about having a GS style honor code and what not. We are opportunist backstabbers, that's a fact . But we must know how to perfectly balance righteousness and betrayal. My usual guidelines:

1 - Honor those teams to which you expect (or need) to have a strong relationship in the short/medium term.

2 - Backstab only when you have reason to believe other teams wouldn't mind, or would have done the same (as in the RP case). Remember, reputation only gets tarnished with teams that think differently. If backstabbing is on their mind, they won't mind so much that you do it.

3 - Remember that loophole only get you out of "technical problems" not moral ones. Finding a loophole and exploiting will not necessarily mean other teams will consider such an action right in their eyes.


(btw, if the chat is during the morning hours, I will find it very hard to follow your rules of conduct... )

[Hot_Enamel]

Also be wary of this….

GS has complained about a third nation who has encouraged and helped Vox in the invasion.

They directed most of their anger towards Roleplay, but I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to think that it was really GoW who they were referring to. They just do not want to upset us, until we sell them Chivalry. Then we should look out.

Remember…Not only did we sell Vox mercenaries, but also sold them Feudalism, and helped them in setting up the “fake war” which caught GS by surprise. I am sure if Beta provided the log of our war chat, it wouldn’t be too hard for him to also prove to GS, that we were pretty excited about helping them take on GS.

When we come clean, I think we come clean with the fact that in addition to the Mercs, we also offered military command support (to cover ourselves for our part in the fake war, and any military suggestions that any of us has sent). We can say that payment was in the form of a discounted tech price or Port Isolation if need be.

I point this out, because Beta has told us, that in their on-on-one conversations with GS that it was GS who were encouraging Vox to land on Bob and take on GoW. GS also told them, that we were ”using Vox as puppets to do GoW dirty work against GS.”

I suspect that we have been the main targets in a character assassination attempt by GS.

If the chat allows it…(ie it is the right time to do it)…I suggest that also take GS to task over this matter. We can say it is rumours only if they get agro or deny it, but realistically, I want them to know we know, and that we don’t want it to continue.

We tell GS, that we are receiving reports that they have been bad mouthing us….maybe not as a team, but certain members have. We quote the above examples, and want assurance that it will stop, that Vox is encourage to resettle on Legoland (not Bob), and GoW & GS relations can return to their favourable diplomatic relations.

Again, this is a very difficult subject to bring up… we can always back down and say it was rumours only…but if the chat is friendly enough, then I think we can risk bringing it up.

[GhengisFarb™]

DO NOT FORGET that one of the primary motivations for our support of Vox and encouragement was to keep Vox out of our lands.

At least it sounds like a good reason.....................

[UnOrthOdOx]

Yep.

We were faced with either assisting or facing 40 immortals ourselves...

[UnOrthOdOx]

GS has added an item to the agenda, they are completing harbors and wish to discuss lux and Iron trade.


TIME for the chat is Saturday, 0300 GMT, Friday 2300 EDT, Friday 2000 PDT.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Updated agenda a bit re: Vox and war

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
GS has added an item to the agenda, they are completing harbors and wish to discuss lux and Iron trade.


TIME for the chat is Saturday, 0300 GMT, Friday 2300 EDT, Friday 2000 PDT.

that'd be 10 pm CST... There's a chance I might not make it, probably about 50-50%, a friend has her thesis presentation at 6 and we'll probably go have dinner afterwards. Anyway, I'll log in as soon as I get back home.

[Hot_Enamel]

Re the iron trade...

When I was their ambassador, I spoke a lot to them about being our "backup supply" of iron.

ie.. we were encouraging the idea, that we were going to war against ND. We had a source, but it was vulnerable. ND could take it from us at any time.
This is still true.

So we were discussing the option, of trading them a luxery for Iron backup... ie they would trade us iron on any turn we demand it.

Note however, cities are becoming larger, and luxeries are now more valuable...so negotiate hard on this point.

It would be nice to have a ready source of Iron if ND ever backstabbed us.

Regs

[Hot_Enamel]

Session Start: Fri Jun 13 23:16:11 2003
[23:16] Session Ident: zeit (Zeit@adsl-188-8.barak.net.il)
[23:16] zeit> HE, what about the chat I talked about with UnO?
[23:16] Hot_Enamel> Did the chat happen ?
[23:16] zeit> no, we're trying to get one organized
[23:16] Hot_Enamel> Yep -- We all want one.
[23:17] zeit> by UnO hasn't replied yet, regarding the exact time
[23:17] Hot_Enamel> Hmm - I will get on it
[23:17] Hot_Enamel> He did post in the forum, asking for best times for everyone
[23:17] zeit> thanks. I was thinkin of this saturday, 0300 GMT
[23:17] zeit> he said 0200 GMT works for you
[23:18] zeit> so I though one hour difference won't be problematic
[23:18] Hot_Enamel> Ok - I will see what I can do
[23:18] zeit> thanks

[UnOrthOdOx]

I JUST replied to his PM. (before I saw this)

If he's still there, tell him to check it.

[Hot_Enamel]

I have confirmed with Zeit, that the chat is ON

TIME for the chat is Saturday, 0300 GMT

He has indicated that we can talk about the Vox Public Announcement as well