Turn 94, 690 BC

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Aeson


Hmmmm...

No Vox victory pictures yet... Have our WC's have all survived? Did the stack scare Mo off... Did Mo cause one of our units to retreat... Or did lightning strike and the 4.3% odds give us the victory?

* Aeson can't wait either.

Well, we know for sure, if it was anything positive (for Vox) they would have posted something about it.

So I bet the immortal retreated to the mountain. Bet they weren't expecting to see that show of force that soon.

[Theseus]

Nathan, I am not being whimsical at all.

Barracks towns should produce attack units. I would like non-Barracks towns to produce one Cat, unless there is an otherwise pressing need. This is especially true of towns near the northern front.

Cats are wonderful tools for open ground, as in kill zones. Put it this way: I'd rather have two Cats each in Arashi and Monsoon and attack unit production in Arashi than Walls in Arashi and *anything* in Monsoon.

[nbarclay]

Theseus, does your analysis of the usefulness of cats hold up against a single massed attack, or does it assume an enemy that trickles in attackers a few at a time? I can see how cats could have a great deal of value as units that can do damage turn after turn with no risk of taking damage in return. But against a single massed attack, each cat would get only one shot on offense and one on defense, plus maybe an extra shot on offense if the initial attack comes at Arashi (allowing cats to strike from the mountain while the Voxian forces are moving in).

[Theseus]

No, that's all. But it's enough for me (rather than shields NOT contributing to the war effort).

[nbarclay]

I view helping Hurricane be in a position to produce 30-shield units sooner and helping Sandstorm get in a position to produce military units with less waste as contributions to the war effort. Granted, they're a little bit longer-term in when the payoff comes, but that does not render them unimportant.

And it would take Sandstorm four turns (not counting this one) to build a catapult if it sacrifices a lot of food, or six if it doesn't. That isn't exactly the most immediate of contributions either.

[Theseus]

How about rushing the Cat?

Given our other monetary needs, can we fit in the cost of rushing Cats in Monsoon and Sandstorm?

[Aeson]

How about just the Cat in Monsoon? The Worker in Sandstorm will give us 20 extra production in Hurricane. That's a free 'Cat' right there. Granted it won't be a Cat, but it's the equivalent as far as overall shields worth of units.

[nbarclay]

I'd rather leave Monsoon open regarding what it will produce for the moment. Once we get our existing units upgraded, we can decide whether we're best off rushing a cat, rushing walls, or leaving it on a temple. And if we do end up rushing something, we'll need less gold if we wait.

[Aeson]

Of course we wait till the last safe moment to rush. We should see Vox's first stack on the Mountains of Dissidentville this turn. The second turn is safe for Monsoon, but the third it could be cut off from road access (the Cat could still escape S).

So rushing production on the Cat this turn would be safest, and the only sure way that we can get it to Arashi. Of course the size of the stack we see will tell all in that regard, we might be able to just let it build normally (in which case switching back to the temple would be good), or at least have 1 more turn of production before needing to rush it.

So, if we look to be losing Monsoon, the Cat. If we can hold it, the Temple?

[Aeson]

How many shields are towards EotS' Barracks? If we were to rush up to 30 shields this turn (Horse/Sword), and make sure to get 10 shields production for next turn would it be worth it? I wouldn't mind paying gold in EotS for food we can store up, it should pay off well.

[Theseus]

Aeson, not sure I understood that last post...

[nbarclay]

Right now I'm trying to finish the huge-map AU game, so I don't really want to load up last turn's save to check the exact status. I'll keep the thought of checking short-rushing options for EotS in mind, though.

[Aeson]

Ok... just an example: (I have no idea what EotS' production is at)

If EotS were at 23 shields towards a Barracks, producing 10 shields per turn (we can get there, think we are at 9 with max food though), and we want to complete the Barracks next turn, we switch production to a Horse/Sword/Temple and rush 7 shields for 28 g, then the 10 production will finish it next turn. It's cheaper than rushing the whole thing right now (17 shields), and finishes at the same time.

The reason something like this will save us food is that we aren't relying just on production. We'd need 17 shields to finish the barracks in one turn, and so would have to sacrifice food for production. (I don't think we can get 17 shields anyways, but it's just an example) This way we sacrifice gold for production, and probably a little bit of food (We'd use 3 FP's + 3 2 food tiles + 1 1 food tile = +7 food) instead of a lot of food by maximixing production. The Barracks ends up built either way.

Just depends on how many shields are in the box if it's going to be worthwhile or not.

[Theseus]

Ahhh... it's funny, we've never really discussed this much in the Strat Forum... in my head I also have called it "short-rushing" and do it fairly often, both in the early game and late (Arty/Infantry/Tank costs).

Yes, let us examine the possibility here.

[Harovan]

Turn arrived.

Team scores:

205 (+5) Gathering Storm
206 (+3) Demogyptica
173 (+3) Glory of War
206 (+3) Role Play
139 (+2) Vox Controli
209 (+4) Legoland

3 vet Immortals and 1 spearman at the mountain 2 of D-ville. The Immortal in the east (Harry the Horrible) retreated to the mountain. None of our WCs was harmed.