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  • Last piece of advice...

    Just the last words of a departing (not for long... ) FAM:

    About the entire Bob-Vox-us situation, war is going to erupt- probably between Vox and GoW or ND, and also between Bobians themselves. We don't have to pick sides, but we can turn this to our favor.

    I think we should favorably consider letting GoW and ND know, (independently of course) that we plan to attack Vox, and that we just want to take over their Estonian territory. We'll promise not to go continue our conquest into Bob, perhaps signing a long term secret NAP with each of them. In return we ask that they hold their war (if the plan to anyway), or start one on Vox (if they just think about being opportunistic... ) when we do. I think this should be done rather soon, if we are to succeed- so that they won't deal with Vox, selling them a right to stay of something of this kind, resulting in one of our main causes/excuses for war (the instablilty and potential foreign attack on our continent their intrusion to Bob brings) eliminated.

    One important thing we are to remember, if we try to pull of this kind of thing: Let the Bobians (GoW and/or ND) or us (preferably the Bobiasn ) declare on Vox first- Vox will concentrate its forces there, but their attack should come in one turn or 2 (after some psychological: "stack of X whatevers is coming your way- be prepared!" precision strikes) after that, when we declare and attack ourselves, this way Vox will have time to organize a defense against the Bobians, and we'll be able to tell we were pressed for an attack because of the latest troubling events across the strait.

    We can convince the Bobians by telling them we could cut off the Iron supply of Vox if we meet no resistance by the first turn (a little half-truth, but that won't kill anyone ), so they have something to earn from declaring earlier- fewer Immortals as the war continues. One important thigs is not to promise the Bobian lands of Vox to anyone- we don't want things to remain quite between ND and GoW. We shouldn't get RP into this as well- by dealing with the northen Bobians alone we cut the bond between them, and isolate RP- which is just what we need if we plan to strike them in the future.

    This is only an idea- a plan if you'd like- and it depends on whether Vox gets a foothold on Bob- we also need to do this at the right time, and hope ND or GoW will trust us, or can be trusted themselves. (I'm sure GoW is quite scared, now that Vox has a bigger military than they have, so we might need to calm them down).

    I trust you to do a good job- in whatever you choose to do!

    May the Gathering Storm prevail!
    Save the rainforests!
    Join the us today and say NO to CIV'ers chopping jungles

  • #2
    I think we should favorably consider letting GoW and ND know, (independently of course) that we plan to attack Vox, and that we just want to take over their Estonian territory. We'll promise not to go continue our conquest into Bob, perhaps signing a long term secret NAP with each of them. In return we ask that they hold their war (if the plan to anyway), or start one on Vox (if they just think about being opportunistic... ) when we do. I think this should be done rather soon, if we are to succeed- so that they won't deal with Vox, selling them a right to stay of something of this kind, resulting in one of our main causes/excuses for war (the instablilty and potential foreign attack on our continent their intrusion to Bob brings) eliminated.
    I disagree. Strongly. I don't want to risk word getting back to Vox that we're thinking about hitting them. Even if that chance is minimal. I DO NOT trust other teams to keep their traps shut.

    Furthermore, even if that wasn't a concern, why tip our hand? Why not watch and wait. If and when a golden opportunity arises, we grab it. The fact is, our military is in no condition to do diddly squat right now, and that's something we all need to remember.

    Still, we are in a position of strength here, diplomatically speaking. We should have other teams coming to us, offering US things to help them out. Not the other way 'round. Meanwhile, we build up our forces, hoard our cash, and keep our eyes & ears open.

    -Arrian
    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Arrian
      Still, we are in a position of strength here, diplomatically speaking. We should have other teams coming to us, offering US things to help them out. Not the other way 'round. Meanwhile, we build up our forces, hoard our cash, and keep our eyes & ears open.
      I agree. If Vox plays well (and that's a big if; I'm strongly in favor of helping them out with tactics) then they could hold off both GoW and ND well.
      ND will come with their swordsmen, but as soon as a swordsman steps near W. Wittlich (assuming that they take it, which shouldn't be too hard for Vox to do; GoW probably put few troops in there and put most of their troops at their border with ND, assuming that Vox would not return in the near future) an immortal can come out of the city and strike at him (at 4 vs. 2.2, the odds strongly favor the immortal).
      GoW's fast units will not be vulnerable to such attacks, since they can strike at the city from two tiles away. However, they're only horsemen - 2 attack against a fortified spearman favors the defense, especially if that spearman is also on a hill or behind city walls. Not to mention what could happen to the horsemen that attack the city and don't die - they'll surely be killed by the counter-attack of the Voxian immortals the next turn.
      Plus, if Vox relocates W. Wittlich to the hill, their job at defending it would be much easier. Fortified spearmen will have 3.5 defense, or 4.5 if they build additional city walls. That's strong enough against swordsmen; I don't see Med. Infantry coming anytime soon, since GoW and ND would rather save cash for upgrading to their UUs to fight the real war, the one between themselves.

      If Vox plays their cards well, this could turn into a massacre for GoW's and ND's troops. THEN they would come to us (or sooner, if they can already guess what is going to happen) and seek our help by cutting off Vox's iron or attacking them.
      "Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
      And the truth isn't what you want to see,
      Close your eyes, and let music set you free..."
      - Phantom of the Opera

      Comment


      • #4
        Whatever you choose to do- keep your ears close to the ground- GoW has already declared war, and called their bretheren to join at their side, which ended with the ususal: "kill the Voxian" spam party! (though there were some hilarious posts- fine spam, but still spam... )

        Whatever we plan to do, we should maintain some degree of communicatiowith one of the Bobian's, preferably GoW as it is the one most concerened with the developments near their territory- and lead the crusade against Vox, and also had a few chats with them- so we can continue this as things develop- play on both sides to our benefits, and be extra careful not to step on anyone's toes...

        Shiber- try to sniff a bit with a letter to HotE and GF- ask them for some info on what they plan to do, but don't forget to make it sound like we're offering something (or thinking of offering) for them as well...

        That's it, the last one- Wish me a safe flight! good luck!
        Save the rainforests!
        Join the us today and say NO to CIV'ers chopping jungles

        Comment


        • #5
          Good luck Zeit! Have a safe trip.

          I'll try to think of something to write. Btw, anyone for trying to organize regular chats with GoW like we have with Lego?
          "Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
          And the truth isn't what you want to see,
          Close your eyes, and let music set you free..."
          - Phantom of the Opera

          Comment


          • #6
            Furthermore, even if that wasn't a concern, why tip our hand? Why not watch and wait. If and when a golden opportunity arises, we grab it.
            Indeed, with some luck, either ND or GOW or even both, might make us an offer to take out VOX. No rep hit and profit on both sides, better relation with mainland civs....
            Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing?
            Then why call him God? - Epicurus

            Comment


            • #7
              I'd much rather not have GS take sides in matters between Vox and Bob for the time being. I'd rather just build up our forces and watch for openings.

              Edit: By the way, have a nice trip!
              Last edited by nbarclay; April 8, 2003, 22:25.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'd much rather not have GS take sides in matters between Vox and Bob for the time being. I'd rather just build up our forces and watch for openings.
                Bingo.

                -Arrian
                grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Safe journey, Zeit. Looks like the war with Vox won't wait until you return

                  DeepO

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                  • #10
                    Yeah, all this prior discussion just went right out the window

                    It's ON. And already the RNG crapped on us.

                    -Arrian
                    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Grog to GS:

                      "Avenge me!! AVENGE ME!!!"
                      The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

                      Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.

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