Turn 89, 800 BC

[Harovan]

To be edited by the leaders of the Scholia.

Status:
- Research at 60%, Feudalism in 8 turns (if the current rate is sustained).
- Luxuries at 10%
- 287 gold cash, -4/turn.

Urgent questions:
- Do we want to suspend research and stockpile gold for a while?
- Do we want to go ahead and upgrade enough warriors once we get our iron connected that we aren't weak compared with Vox?
- Where do we want to settle next?
- How many units and which do we want to relocate towards the "front".

Military:
- Warriors other than our main three pickets withdraw to Hurricane for possible upgrade.
- Any other orders from our generals?
- Settler moves 7-8-4.

Economy:
- Add the three workers who just finished our iron road to Hurricane. Boost luxury slider to 20%.
- Worker 8-7 from Sandstorm moves 8.
- Worker 4 from Tempest starts road.
- Worker in western desert starts irrigating.
- Worker by Cyclone moves 9-9 and starts irrigating.
- Worker on southern fur moves 8-8-8.
- Tempest works three flood plains and two hills (including the one we finish mining and roading this turn). Need to move a hill laborer to an irrigated plains next turn for three-turn growth.
- Sandstorm works two flood plains.
- Bolderberg and Cyclone swap tiles so Bolderberg is working the shared forest. This trades two food (this turn and next) for finishing its spearman in three turns total instead of four.
- Tornado switches to building a War Chariot.
- Move Tornado's new laborer off the forest. (We'll trade tiles with Cyclone next turn so our War Chariot's total build time is still three turns.)

Diplomacy:
Proposals to GoW and RP on Feudalism- please discuss.
Thread library:
- Standing orders for workers

[DeepO]

Sunday, I would like to discuss things with the Legos too, regarding the possible deal with Feud.

Seeing that they are not in a republic yet (and will have some anarchy in between), we will be a lot faster on research then them, if we would go for it. However, we could also use that time to build reserves that could last a thousand years. If I can be honest (I will wrap it nicely, of course), I want to say to them that we haven't decided yet on how to proceed, and therefore want them to consider two proposals:

1. We give Feud + Knights, they give Theology + gold. Because of the difference in speed, the end of the deal should be more or less fixed, so we could offer Feud for the gold, in case we can exchange Knights for Theo later. Gold price to be discussed...

2. We slow down on Feud, and trade it for Theology, compensating the difference with gold on our side. knights will then be part of a future deal.

Some thoughts: we can't delay trade for too long, so we can't delay getting Feud long either. I would prefer if we would research it ourselves anyway, so at least get us over half the 1st beaker cost (more will be needed if we want to research it the same turn as whoever is also doing it).

DeepO

[DeepO]

Other idea: if others are researching it, like can be seen from Togas last message, how long would it take them? How long would it take any team to reach feudalism, given the price of the tech, and what we think of their research speed. 20 turns? (we have 9 left, out of 13.) at least 15, I would say.

Actually, by not going the whole way, we would make the tech harder to research for whoever is doing it. That in itself could mean an extra 2-4 turns delay in releasing feudalism to the world.

DeepO

[zeit]

I can ask GF how long they'll take, as they're the ones researching it (maybe ND as well), but this kind of communications take time, and will make this kind of venture more difficult for us.
We have every reason to believe we'll get there well before everyone else, and i'd like us to have that tech soon, so we could sit back rather safely and hoard gold- i'm pretty sure we could have a nice earning out of the tech. Don't including Lego with whom we have a sure deal (or so we think, at least)


Do you want me to contact Vox about this? I think that might be a good idea- draining their coffers a bit before we attack....

And, does anyone have an email address of someone at ND i can make contact with as DareKill doesn't seem to answer my PM's.

[zeit]

What do you think of the following offer: 200 gold in cash, or 12gpt plus a 7 turn NDA...

HotE also sent me a letter- refusing the harbor part, but sounding interested in a loan- would he see a 12gp for Feud as a loan? i can try and convince that it is...

[DeepO]

Vox: how long would it take us to be able to attack Vox? 19 turns? because if we want to be honorable, we should keep a minimum period of non-agressiveness after our last deal with Vox. I'm all for draining them some more, thought, but of course not in gpt!

DeepO

[zeit]

Wow- good news! ND's also interested- i think three interested teams mean that only GoW is researching it (ND didn't mentiond researching it, RP said "someone is researching it" and GoW said: "we research it". We know that Lego isn't researching it, and the probablity that Vox does is near bottom)
I think it would be safe to say we could net a nice profit out of this tech.

I wouldn't mind making a quick research- this would allow us to shift quickly to gold hoarding and make our attack earlier.

I'm sending Darekill our price.

[alva]

Could we please do one thing, and let others make an offer first, without setting a price. The fact they all went for it as fast as they did, suggests to me, they were willing to pay more. Good work though .
-

Actually, by not going the whole way, we would make the tech harder to research for whoever is doing it. That in itself could mean an extra 2-4 turns delay in releasing feudalism to the world.

I like this idea, and no other tech then feud. lends itself better than this one.
-
That could mean we would be able to pick up engineering cheap too, as the last one to get it.

[Shiber]

Could someone please check for our ETA on Feudalism if we turn all tax to science?

[zeit]

alva- I actually believe that setting a fixed price for all we sell to is a good idea, and around 30% beaker cost is quite reasonable. RP and GoW were interested in the ETA- so telling them we're first was important, along with setting a fixed price this gives them little room to manuever- this way we can be relatively safe from the toils of haggling and be pretty sure we have a deal secured.

[DeepO]

For the details: Let's start from the assumption that we will offer Feud, they will enter the price as requested and accept, then next turn we accept. This means 1 turn delay for all teams, so no possible cheating, and no possible advantage for any of them (also no discussion because if somebody receives it first in a turn because they play first, the beaker cost would sink for all subsequent teams.)

Further, I wouldn't set our science level to maximum, we will be first anyway (by far). We don't want to delay it by much either, as the faster we can sell it, the bigger our relative advantage will get (the fewer others can save cash). 10 turns seems reasonable...

Only problem is when we are going to loan money to GoW, we need a bit more cash then. But they can't lend more then some 400 gold, because they have no means of paying it back. 400 gold would mean 50 gpt, and seeing that we are currently around 70 gpt and are doing a lot better economically as anyone else, I can't see us going for more. And they also need to pay us for the tech

DeepO

[DeepO]

Oh, and I agree on the fixed price. I will propose the same to Legoland tomorrow...

Actually, come to think of it, I'll propose them now, so we can discuss things tomorrow more informed, and maybe already get an answer.

DeepO

[nbarclay]

Please, let's wait and talk things over a little more before sending out firm offers.

[nbarclay]

At break-even, we get Feudalism in eight turns (with luxuries at 20% now that Hurricane is size 11). At maximum, we can get it in five. I can't help but think that the earlier we can deliver Feudalism, the better the price we can ask for.

[Shiber]

Just out of curiosity, could we please check what's our current minimum possible ETA for Feudalism? (if we turn all tax to science spending)

Edit: cross-posted with Nathan.
Nathan, I think you're right. Zeit, could you ask our clients if they'd be willing to pay an additional 50 gold or 3 gpt if we can provide them with Feudalism in 5 turns or less?