News Flash: Lux is Dead.

[alva]

Not to mention the reamining uints Lux still had on Bob that could have pillaged a few things.

[Aeson]

Our 'loss' in this situation is basically a Map of BOB right? I highly doubt we'd want to wait 30 some odd turns for Construction given the tech rate. Maybe we can convince Vox to replace that map by trading their own for one of the mainland civs, and then giving it to us. Not an in game map, but screenshots so they don't have to give us their terrain map which we don't have claim to anyways (we don't have to bring this up at the start though ).

I doubt they would go for it, but from their message it does seem they recognize this action cost us some opportunity. They do get something out of it and may not be as adverse to trading their own maps with BOB civs as we are, so maybe it will fly. We may get a better map of BOB this way, and without having to disclose our own.

[nbarclay]

What would we have done if Vox had consulted us? Tell them, "We expect you to leave Lux alive for a while longer no matter how much it harms your relations with Glory of War, and oh yeah, we expect you not to tell GoW that we're involved"? I know we're disappointed that the situation with Lux didn't work out the way we hoped it would, but would we have acted differently if it were our relations with the rest of the world on the line?

I don't think it's time to sound war drums against Vox yet. We still might need them to help us combat an emerging monster on the mainland. We need to keep our options open for the time being. On the other hand, I've reached a point where I regard Vox as untrustworthy enough that I wouldn't mind absorbing them if they become more useful to us as conquered territory than as a partner.

Nathan

[FrustratedPoet]

we would start dragging old cows from the ditch (Is this English? I doubt it )

I've never heard that expression before, but I love it!

Perhaps "flogging a dead horse" would be an equivalent English expression.

[nbarclay]

Vox is interested in getting a little gold from us (the 20 they'd previously wanted us to give Lux) to buy Map Making from GoW, partly to help mask our trade deal with them and partly to smooth over hard feelings from the Lux situation. We might want to think about trying to leverage that to see if we can get Vox to get us some maps, maybe even offering a bit more gold than they asked for if they do.

[Shiber]

Vox is asking that we participate in the expenses of MM from GoW. They want to better their relations with GoW, it seems (I'm not buying their excuses of carrying out this deal just to mask our trade agreement).
As far as I'm concerned, we can agree to that and forward them the 20 gold, but ask that they forward us half of the gold that they salvaged from Portia, as compensation for the loss of the map of Bob (and particularly, destroying this opportunity without consulting us).

[DeepO]

Shiber, I agree, why would we pay the full 20 gold just so Vox can get better relations with GoW? No, too much... it's not that 20 gold is the end of the world, but they can have MM from us, and if they really need to give their gold to someone, they can give it to us instead.

DeepO

[Aeson]

I thought we were already getting MM for free? I appreciate that masking our alliance is an issue... but Lux players are likely to make that more apparent now anways.

If we can get a map out of this I wouldn't mind paying more even... but 40 g between us just to hide something that's probably going to be apparent very soon anyways isn't all that great a deal.

[alva]

Good point Aeson.

How much did Lux know about the deal between us and Vox anyway?

[nbarclay]

They know I was in close touch with BetaHound regarding the deal between Vox and Lux. I tried not to let on about our relationship with Vox being a lot broader than just trying to coordinate our policy toward Lux, but they very possibly have some suspicions at the very least.

[DeepO]

Maybe it's best to get confirmation from Vox on how much they slipped to Lux, not only to our tech trade situation (I think Lux suspects we are close to Vox, but I don't know if we're on a 'all tech to everybody' deal

Further, did they get information from them on iron, position / situation on in their / our capital etc.

DeepO

[DeepO]

BTW, any Luxian joining is going to have a very hard time catching up, if he wants to read everything in this forum... I guess we have crossed 10,000 posts in here

DeepO

[zeit]

As always, i'm gone and all hell breaks loose. Well, its bittersweet- less headache and tension for everyoe involved, but one less WM for us, potentially...

I think that the secret we share with Vox is bound to be discovered soon, and i think GoW is a good place to start, if we want to have this discovered. OTOH, if we want to keep it as a secret, we'll need to invest a bit- but since we won't trade much tech in the following turns, we can maintain the impression of tension- obviously without partnership of such nature, if we don't heavily trade with BOB, their suspicioun will not be aroused. From what i've seen in people's posts here, this is our plan for the following techs- philosophy and Republic, right?

Right now, a small sum like 20 gold is an acceptable price, but we must set a few "requests" from Vox, regarding proper compensation caused by Lux untimely demise...

[asleepathewheel]

We could always fake a war with vox.

move troops next to dissidentville, take shots, have vox move troops down, take shots, gift the city back and forth to act like something is going on.

We could say that we got fed up with this situation and went to war about it.

Probably would be better for Vox to fake declare the war on us, since they are viewed as horribly unstable and they probably know that if we start a war, we are going to finish it.

[notyoueither]

I am getting the impression that Vox is getting the impression that they can just keep coming back to the well with us. ie, open up agreements already made.

I am against it.