News Flash: Lux is Dead.

[Arrian]

Biting the hand that feeds you is typically a bad career move.

-Arrian

[alva]

It would be nice to know how much gold Vox got from taking the city.

If they planned this from the beginning, it was a nice scheme.

Dissentville to Lux to Vox gave them :
Gold;
free worker;

They didn't suffer too many pop loss from swapping civs
(portia didn't loose any, except for for emptying the food box, and I think, this was the case the first time too), not bad for a corrupt city IMHO.

[FrustratedPoet]

If Vox engineered this whole situation deliberately then they are geniuses .... although our other dealings with them don't support that conclusion.

[Arrian]

alva,

The worker wasn't really "free" - it was a Voxian pop point that got used to build it. Plus, like you said, the foodbox got emptied in Dissidentville. Plus, Vox lost turns to develop Dissidentville. Sure, it's corrupt now, but with a little bit a TLC (tender loving care) that could be a decent city. Now they have to start from scratch.

-Arrian

[Shiber]

Originally posted by Arrian
But we should start working on an offensive force. Let's have the barracks towns start pumping out vet warriors for swordsman upgrades (5-6 of them?) and then start building WC's and a few spears.

I dunno about swordsmen. From what I've been hearing so far, most of us want to continue the tech agreement with Vox at least until the early middle age. Given that, when we attack, we'll be using knights (or possibly cavalry, depending on the way things turn out).
In any case, I wouldn't support a war against Vox until we have occupied all of our lands.

[Shiber]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
If Vox engineered this whole situation deliberately then they are geniuses .... although our other dealings with them don't support that conclusion.

Well, I dunno... they did take a rather ugly hit in the international arena, once again appearing as the opportunistic civ, and if Lux defends itself properly in the PTWDG, they might look like the aggressors as well.

[Shiber]

I just realized something: now that Lux is gone, the game will move on faster! Woohoo!
Btw, another thing: I never thought that Vox would turn out to be the first team to have captured another team's city in this game.

[Theseus]

Buh-bye!

[DeepO]

Sigh... this is terrible news for us, for one reason only: Lux's map, and their minimap. We got some gold out of this, but I would post a message to betahound that again they took a decision which involved us, without consulting us first... Tell them we don't like missing Lux's worldmap because of whatever problems they had with Lux.

The biggest volatilty of Vox is that it doesn't see all consequences of their actions, with this being just another prime example. We could very well ask compensation for the missed map... e.g. ask them for their map, without us giving ours.

DeepO

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by DeepO
Sigh... this is terrible news for us, for one reason only: Lux's map, and their minimap. We got some gold out of this, but I would post a message to betahound that again they took a decision which involved us, without consulting us first... Tell them we don't like missing Lux's worldmap because of whatever problems they had with Lux.

The biggest volatilty of Vox is that it doesn't see all consequences of their actions, with this being just another prime example. We could very well ask compensation for the missed map... e.g. ask them for their map, without us giving ours.

DeepO

I'm not sure I would let them know that we are really pissed at them. Keep it in the back pocket for one day they try to change a deal or when we are ready to strike back.

ANd no, they don't seem to look ahead. They didn't consult us before lux came or in their exit. And they think we are a partnership?

[Aeson]

If we do build Vet Warriors, I think we need to consider using them to replace our Reg ones instead of building up a larger overall number of Warriors. This will work especially well at times our Barracks cities are at 4 shields per turn. 2 turns of production + disbanding a Reg Warrior for each Vet Warrior. ~10 Swords is a good target, the rest of our forces being WC's, Horses, and Spears (possibly Cats).

Anyone have experience with catapults in MP? If we can protect them well enough they certainly would add to the efficiency of our military. I tend to think that keeping a mixed stack of Spears, Swords, and Cats slowly but surely claiming territory will be more effective than trying to blitz with fast movers. Cats aren't all that effective against cities, but against units they often can make a big hp difference over the course of the war.

The Horses and WC's would be reserved for counter attacks, scouting, and taking out exposed targets. Their movement makes them better canidates for homeland security (with Spears at the proper places of course) as well.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Aeson
Anyone have experience with catapults in MP? If we can protect them well enough they certainly would add to the efficiency of our military. I tend to think that keeping a mixed stack of Spears, Swords, and Cats slowly but surely claiming territory will be more effective than trying to blitz with fast movers. Cats aren't all that effective against cities, but against units they often can make a big hp difference over the course of the war.

The Horses and WC's would be reserved for counter attacks, scouting, and taking out exposed targets. Their movement makes them better canidates for homeland security (with Spears at the proper places of course) as well.

I would agree that in this case, it would appear that swords spears and cats would be the way to go, esp. since we will be dropping the army behind the lines using galleys. Comibined with the jungle problems and the isthmus, this would be the most effective way, IMHO. Ususally I would prefer fastmovers, but in this case we can slug it out for the most part, hopefully dropping each group beside a city. We might get lucky and find that all of their cities is either on the coast or inland one tile, wouldn't suprise me one bit. We could conceivably take everything in one or twoturns of battle. No need for near-defenseless fastmovers then.

[Theseus]

Whoa whoa whoa!!

1. The attack plans are a long way and much discussion from here.

2. Just as in SP, we may very well want to extort and create a vassal.

Re Aeson's comments: I would be averse to disbanding the reg Warriors. I'd probably want to get 4-5 upgraded and sent with the attack, and the rest left behind for defense and upgraded as we can afford it.

Thinking of our attack stack (say, 2 Cats, 4 vet Swords, 3 reg swords, and 3 vet Horsemen) as compared to a defensive stack of 4 vet Immortals:

Cats attack; say we knock 1 hp off of 2 Immortals
1 Horse attacks; say we knock 2 hps off of a 3rd Immortal and retreat
1 vet Sword attacks: We take out the last full-health Immortal, but get knocked down to 1 hp

Now we are left with 2 Immortals at 3hp, and 1 Immortal at 2hp.

I'd look to take the next two out with vet Swords... one Immortal would likely survive with 1hp... in such case, I'd like to take out one of the now 1hp-remaining Immortals with a reg Sword, and the last with a Horsemen.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
I'm not sure I would let them know that we are really pissed at them. Keep it in the back pocket for one day they try to change a deal or when we are ready to strike back.

ANd no, they don't seem to look ahead. They didn't consult us before lux came or in their exit. And they think we are a partnership?

I wouldn't word it that strongly, it is really unfortunate, but I'm not pissed. We gained 75 gold from the stay of Lux on our continent, and had nothing to do with them getting eliminated. So, no, I'm not pissed, and neither should GS be, but we missed an opportunity, which makes me sad.

I think you more or less agree that we need to tell Vox that this was not to our liking, we can't get back later to an issue that we didn't at least mentioned before, or we would start dragging old cows from the ditch (Is this English? I doubt it )

DeepO

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by DeepO


I wouldn't word it that strongly, it is really unfortunate, but I'm not pissed. We gained 75 gold from the stay of Lux on our continent, and had nothing to do with them getting eliminated. So, no, I'm not pissed, and neither should GS be, but we missed an opportunity, which makes me sad.

I think you more or less agree that we need to tell Vox that this was not to our liking, we can't get back later to an issue that we didn't at least mentioned before, or we would start dragging old cows from the ditch (Is this English? I doubt it )

DeepO

cows?

for everything else, I agree