GS Scenario

[Aeson]

I've edited the scenario now so that the food and shields for each city should be correct at 1350BC. I also edited the Pyramids back to their original cost, and change CfC to have it's original stats (I had modified this as one of the 'difficult' solutions I had come up with for rushing the shields in Hurricane).

Here is the save.

GS 1350

[nbarclay]

Thanks! It's been a long time since we've had a fully current scenario to play with.

[Aeson]

It's not fully current. Our gpt seems a bit low... I could have sworn I changed the hill Tempest was sitting on to Gold.

I've added the gold to the hill now. The commerce doesn't update until the next turn, so we end up a few gold behind. It still leaves us 1 gold short of +32 per turn though? Any ideas?

GS 1350BC (same file name as in above post, both links should work)

[Aeson]

710BC Pyramids GA

Ran through the more accurate scenario with a little more care than last time. Mistimed a few things, but this should be pretty close to what we come up with. I researched Construction this time, and timed an Aquaduct pre-build (plus cash) in Tempest.

Tempest built 2 Workers, which feels best to me, otherwise we're likely to run up against the pop limit for at least a few turns. Researching Construction full bore resulted in getting it 1 turn before Tempest was ready to grow to size 7. I didn't have enough cash for the rush until the next turn though.

The main mistakes I made were spending too many worker turns up north, and so falling behind in Tempest's improvements and population. Timed right, I think we can get the GL 12 turns into our GA if we want to try for it. Doubt we would get it, but perhaps we could switch to the GW or HG depending on where we are at techs.

The other option would be to wipe Vox out (which would be relatively painless given the numbers we could throw together very quickly), or even buildup for an invasion of BOB. In the later case, getting the Great Lighthouse (might be able to get it after the Collosus even) could make a big difference.

[DeepO]

Aeson, I can't check your save right now, so some details please:
- how large was Hurricane in 710 BC?
- How many workers did you add?
- How many cities you had at 710 BC?
- Were you confident that the spears / WCs gathered were more then enough to properly defend us throughout the whole wonder building?

Once the GA triggers, I'm sure there is nothing holding us back no more, so at that time, depending on the situation, we can choose to either invade, or build up ecenomy (I think we're going to invade, but you never know)

DeepO

[Shiber]

Originally posted by DeepO
Once the GA triggers, I'm sure there is nothing holding us back no more, so at that time, depending on the situation, we can choose to either invade, or build up ecenomy (I think we're going to invade, but you never know)

I'd rather attack only after we have settled our entire part of the continent, as per our borders agreement with Vox.
In my opinion, it would be best for us if we would go to war only when peaceful expansion will no longer be possible. That way, we'll also enter the war stronger than we would have otherwise.

[alva]

The decission we should make is, with what units we want to attack and what Vox will have to defend...
Swords+horsies(wc's) ---->spears/immotals
or
knights--->pikes

[Arrian]

Aeson,

Excellent work. How does our expansion go in your scenario?

-Arrian

[Aeson]

I'll get a timeline together today or tomorrow.

Off the top of my head DeepO:

1. Hurricane was size 11. We can get it to size 12 easy though. I sent 3 workers up north to make some insignificant mines after they finished mining/roading the Iron. They could stay at Hurricane, mine the other Mountain, and one of them then Irrigate the Grassland. Once it is Irrigated, that worker would be added to Hurricane. This puts us at size 12 and 30 shields per turn during our GA.

2. All the pop growth in Hurricane past size 7 was done with Workers. I also added one worker at size 5 to hurry things along. May or may not be necessary, but remember these are 'granary' workers being added to a non granary city, so in essence they are trading 10 shields for 10 food. I think it's a good trade whenever Hurricane has a tile ready to use, as the 10 extra food will then be creating shields and commerce in Hurricane. We don't have to sacrifice terrain improvements in the rest of the empire (other than the 2 N cities) to do it either.

3. Our final city (9 as to my numbering) is founded on 710BC. We may want to switch 8 and 9 though, as Tempest grows on the same turn, and so loses a turn of production from the Incense hill that site 9 opens up.

4. I built Settlers in the 2 Barracks cities when they were timed to hit size 6. These cities became the two W Desert ones, and should pay off nicely because they open up 2 Hills we want to use in Tempest.

Our forces in this scenario ended up with our 9 Warriors, 2 Spears, and 6 WC's, and our first 30 shield unit being produced the next turn. I think it's enough to repel any invasion we are likely to see, especially considering the rate at which Hurricane (1 Horse or Sword per turn) could be pumping out units at that point.

We also have a 3rd Barracks city by then, and it could be 4 if we want, as I was building Harbors, Aquaducts, and Temples in some cities which easily could be working on our Military.

[DeepO]

Thanks Aeson!

I'm not sober enough to fully understand consequences of what you said here, but allow me to point out one thing: from the start, I was an advocate of adding as much workers as possible to Hurricane, I simply wanted to check how many you added in your scenario, while keeping a healthy military position as well. I'm not sure 9 warriors and 8 WCs (or spears) will be enough to silence our war generals, but for me it's adequate to defend...

DeepO

[DeepO]

Oh, BTW, adding a few workers to some of our barracks cities could have a great impact on the number of units available, while only having marginabl effect on the eta of the GP.

DeepO

[Aeson]

If we are willing to let the Barracks cities sit at size 6 for a while we can have ~4 more 20 shield units out by that point. The Settlers pay off very quickly though, from a production standpoint.

[nbarclay]

It seems to me that the time to have barracks cities build settlers would probably be shortly before they would reach size 7 if they were able to. Is there some nuance of their production capacity that causes that not to be the case for these particular cities?

[Aeson]

The reason for the Settlers at that time was due to making sure I got all the cities founded by the time the Pyramids were built. City sites 8 and 9 are more important to Tempest than to themselves.

I'll have to check the produciton (don't have any files to check right now), but before a GA I think at size 4 Tornado is producing 6 shields per turn (after waste) and Bolderburg is at 5. City site 8 could wait a few turns until Cyclone can produce the Settler, so maybe keeping Bolderburg at a pop which is giving 6 per turn as well would be worthwhile. Once the GA hits, I think we can get both of them to 10 shields per turn at size 5 or 6.

I think the Hill city N of Tempest (if we go with building it of course) could hit 20 per turn by about the midpoint of our GA if we want to continue (and switch) to dedicated EotS and Cyclone to Workers. The Aquaduct there will be built in time. It can have 2 Shielded Grassland, 3 Irrigated FP's, and 4 Mountains... plus another Grassland or 2 (whatever it takes to get to 20 per turn after waste). This would limit the effectiveness of the Desert city(s), but be more valuable I think. After the GA ends, we could swap things around to keep it at 10 per turn and give the city out on the coast more production to use.

[Aeson]

Sorry for the OT nature of this post, but since this was the last place the topic was mentioned, I just want to make a comment about BF1. I sent him a PM talking about what I feel are communication issues mainly affecting his interactions with some of us Strat forum regulars. He seems willing to work on his end of the deal. I think he just didn't realize how some of his comments were coming off, and obviously he is a bit high strung.

I think it will make things in the IDG go much smoother for everyone involved if we can cut him a little slack at this point. Reading the posts over, his trigger seems to be 'you seem to be missing the point' and other like references. This isn't about agreeing or disagreeing with him, but rather dealing with the tone of the posts in which it is done. Just something to bear in mind when dealing with him...