Diplomacy Scholia: selling CoL

[alva]

Originally posted by Shiber


I disagree. CoL has no real worth, it is only a prerequisite. If this was Literature, for example, we could have asked for more gold since they'll be able to build libraries faster, but not in the case of CoL.
In other words, prereq. techs have no real worth while you're researching something else, so we shouldn't pretend that CoL does.

mm, ok, but MM isn't one of the biggest pririties in this game. (at least not from GoW's view on us, we have a nice little continent, etc...)

Therefore you can argue that the only reason we want MM is that we 'need' it as a prerequisite to reach the middleages as is the case with HBR.

[alva]

Originally posted by Shiber


I object. They'll just offer HBR plus some gold which we don't want. We need to make them an offer first, and I recommend that it'd be:
1. Deal #1: CoL for 150 gold; Deal #2: MM for 180 gold.
2. Deal #1: CoL for 7 gpt; Deal #2: MM for 170 gold.
IMHO both options should be presented to GoW, so that they could choose, depending on the status of their treasury.

Shiber, either you are and or I am.

This is a message to ND

[nbarclay]

Alva, it might be good to make it clear to ND that we already have arrangements lined up for Horseback Riding and that we would prefer to swap for a newer tech if they have one or will get one soon, but that we would consider gold (either up front or per turn) if that is all they can come up with.

Shiber, I don't like the timing on a gold-per-turn deal. I'm not sure the inability to break a gpt deal without declaring war would be as big a deterrent as it is in SP, plus, a gpt outlay would slow down GoW's Map Making research.

Nathan

[Shiber]

Originally posted by alva
Therefore you can argue that the only reason we want MM is that we 'need' it as a prerequisite to reach the middleages as is the case with HBR.

MM lets you build harbors; like Literature, it is both a prerequisite and a tech that enables a city improvement. CoL, on the other hand, is just a prerequisite, therefore we can't charge extra for delivering it earlier.

Originally posted by alva


Shiber, either you are and or I am.

This is a message to ND

Yes, you're right.

[DeepO]

GoW: I think we can trust them, and hope that if we are the first to give them our tech, they will trust us too. We definately need to acquire MM urgently, for one reason only: we need to sell it to Lux before they can buy it elsewhere. So, if possible, don't propose to accept MM from them 2 turns after discovery, if they don't ask for it. Quite likely, if we offered them our tech in front, they will offer theirs (not accepted, as part of the money needs to be transfered) the turn they discover it. No need to ask for a delay...

ND: I would ask them to make an offer, we might now more then. We kind of know they're working towards construction (which was gossip from GF), so let them offer it to us, if they want. I strongly doubt that any team on Bob is going to offer gold for our techs, they need it much too badly... don't ask for it either.

RP: I haven't heard back from us. In the same message to them, I proposed a lon if they needed it, and told them we are going to get republic before they can, so they might need to choose another research path. I can understand this is going to take some time.

DeepO

[nbarclay]

Code of Laws allows courthouses, which can be qute valuable for making cities with significant corruption more useful. It's Philosophy that's only value is as a prerequisite.

[nbarclay]

DeepO, I think it was premature for you to bring up trading Republic with RP. We'll probably need to trade it just to keep a civ that's hot on our heels researching it from doing so (assuming we're in the lead at the time), but we haven't made a final decision on that yet.

[alva]

Alva, it might be good to make it clear to ND that we already have arrangements lined up for Horseback Riding and that we would prefer to swap for a newer tech if they have one or will get one soon, but that we would consider gold (either up front or per turn) if that is all they can come up with.

* added the HBR thing,
not going to add the GPT part(unless someone else comes up with something else why I should ), if they offer someking of non-tech trading, we know they have gold aplenty.
(Trip said something about 20 swordsmen, =warrior upgrade).

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by alva

* added the HBR thing,
not going to add the GPT part(unless someone else comes up with something else why I should ), if they offer someking of non-tech trading, we know they have gold aplenty.
(Trip said something about 20 swordsmen, =warrior upgrade).

But they may have most of the 20 swordsmen already and be upgrading as fast as they get the gold. Or they may even have already used up their pre-built warriors and be having to build swordsmen from scratch to get the rest of the way up to 20. I don't think we can interpret Trip's words as meaning that they necessarily have a lot of gold lying around. (If you were fighting a war, wouldn't you upgrade units as the gold becomes available?)

Nathan

[DeepO]

Nathan, I tried to word it carefully, and thought I didn't offer a trade, only warned them that we would probably be first to discover it. But, you're right in one respect: that message was perhaps a little too much, it got debated for nearly a week, and while further toned down might still be too much seeing the new situation.

My only excuse would be that I wasn't fully briefed yet, there were a pile of new posts in less then 2 days of absence.

DeepO

[Shiber]

Originally posted by nbarclay
Code of Laws allows courthouses, which can be qute valuable for making cities with significant corruption more useful. It's Philosophy that's only value is as a prerequisite.

Of course. I'm so stupid today.
Someone shoot me before I make another stupid mistake.

[notyoueither]

GPT for tech in this game is unwise, unless we are very comfortable with the people paying, and even then things can change fast.

With GoW involved in a continental power struggle it would be sheer folly.

[alva]

Originally posted by nbarclay
(If you were fighting a war, wouldn't you upgrade units as the gold becomes available?)

Nathan

Sure, but your point even makes my reasoning more effective.
If they have no tech to trade, and say something like, "we want to but can't", we know they spent there money on the upgrades.(or at least we can assume.
Let them try to be creative and say too much

But to make you feel at ease I'll hint at it

[zeit]

okay, i'm posting a message to GF, offering him the following:

Giving us 150 gold (or less if they don't have cash, but not a petty amount like 10 or 20...) now for CoL, and they give us MM when ready- we then pay them back what they gave us plus 30.

The idea pf them giving us gpt doesn't exactly thrill me, but if they pose a hard line against our offer, we can then offer them the gpt deal (they pay X-gpt while we return them in a lump sum).

[DeepO]

RP just responded, the CoL for literature deal is settled. If we offer CoL the turn we discover it, we should get Literature back the turn after that.

DeepO