Announcement

**nbarclay** · February 24, 2003, 19:05

What we want, wherever possible, is to trade Code of Laws for whatever tech they're in the process of researching. Horseback Riding is completely uninteresting to us in and of itself - it's ours from Vox any time we ask for it - and would be interesting only if it comes with gold and if GoW is not going to be in a position to trade us a more advanced tech. Map Making would be worth throwing in a little gold on our side for (gold to be delivered only when Map Making is, even if we provide Code of Laws first), but I would be reluctant to go much if any over a third of the difference in beaker cost. (Getting one third from two other civs would make costs even for all three; one third from three would give the civ that researched Map Making the financial advantage.)

As far as I'm concerned, "We'll give you CoL now and you give us [fill in the blank] when you get it," is acceptable. Once they have Code of Laws from us, trying to renege without messing up their reputations could get awkward. We'd be taking a chance on a possible doublecross, but at least we would cut off the possibility of someone's reselling Code of Laws.

Also, we don't want to finalize a deal with one civ unless either they promise not to resell the tech or we also have deals lined up with the others. After all, we don't want someone else reselling our hard-researched tech and cutting us out of the deal.

Nathan

**Dominae** · February 24, 2003, 19:15

Maybe Lux will give us Dissidentville in exchange for Code of Laws...

**DeepO** · February 24, 2003, 19:21

Shouldn't we discuss whether we're going to either do a simultanous deal with all teams, or go for an NDA instead?

DeepO

**zeit** · February 25, 2003, 13:14

I'd say we should aim for a simultaneous deal if possible- RP shouldn't be mad at us- after all, according to Togas' diplomatic methods- they shouldn't expect us to do them a favor of NDA, when we obvioudly could arrange it ourselves. And frankly, i think we can. The time for discussion is nearly ending, and we have more pressing issues to discuss, so i think its rather urgent that the ambassadors start probing the teams.

As for GoW: GF has replied with telling me (without refering to CoL specificly) that they have HBR, and willing to trade for it (we already knew that, i'll ask for gold later), and that they will have MM in 9 turns, which they are also willing to trade. He also reffered to WM trading. Anyhow, i'd rather we have all the options in front of us, before we start a real bargaining.

**Shiber** · February 25, 2003, 13:30

An idea re: MM from GoW:
We tell GoW that we feel that it's unfortunate that they won't have MM in time, but we have a solution. We'll offer them CoL for 150 gold. They should accept this deal, and as soon as they research MM, offer it to us for 180 gold (150 / 10 * 12 = 180). This would solve both the sync problem and the tech cost problem.
What do you think?

**nbarclay** · February 25, 2003, 13:31

How about if we offer to go ahead and give GoW Code of Laws at the same time we make other trades for it, in exchange for their giving us Map Making within two turns after they get it (to allow them some time to try to sell it to other teams)? Tell them that since we have War Chariots, we're a lot more interested in Map Making than we are in a deal regarding Horseback Riding.

And we still need to get in contact with ND. Sir Ralph, do you still feel comfortable being ambassador to ND with your planning to join them in the ISDG? Or does that create too much of a possible conflict of interest? Someone needs to get moving on that.

Nathan

**nbarclay** · February 25, 2003, 13:39

Cross-posted with Shiber. Shiber's proposal would be great if GoW has the spare gold lying around, but considering the war they've been involved in, my bet is that they won't. But we could tell them that if they can't come up with the full amount, we'll be willing to take whatever they can come up with, in which case we would return the amount they give us, plus 30 gold to cover the difference in tech values. (I'm tempted to ask for a reduction in their payment if they can't come up with the full 150, but if I were them, my response would be, "Let's just wait until we get Map Making to do the trade, then.")

Nathan

**alva** · February 25, 2003, 13:44

Why not try to get it on a equal basis first?
1. If the tension is rising on the main continent, they are likely to get more eager to sell ("if we don't,someelse will").
2. They get the tech long before us, thus that equals the gold.

**alva** · February 25, 2003, 13:45

Proposed message to ND, if noone object within a couple of hours it will be sent.

Greetings from Gathering Storm,

I hope all is well and the Gods are shining on you.
We seem to be distant neighbors and therefore do not have the honor and pleasure of meeting you more often.
This saddens me very much, let’s hope someday we will have better transportation methods that will allow us to visit one another more frequently.

I apologize for the hastiness, but I have a quick and somewhat urgent message to convey.
Our civ's wise men will soon complete their research in a new field named "Code of Laws", and we were wondering, if and what your glorious civilization might be willing to offer for this technology?
We are open to many offers and will consider them carefully.
However let me state that we have no interested of having "Horse back riding" as part of the deal. For this we already made arrangements with another civilization.

Thanks you for your attentiveness.

Alva, Gathering Storm's ambassador to Neu Demogyptica.

**zeit** · February 25, 2003, 13:50

Nathan's proposal sounds good, and i'd go ahead and send it to GF. But i'd rather we see the other teams' proposals before we go ahead with serious bargaining. I don't have much spare time, so if anyone is willing, please send a message to ND and ask them for proposals. I will check again in a few hours, and in no more than 12 hours, i will send GoW an offer (in case ND hasn't got a better MM offer for us).

**nbarclay** · February 25, 2003, 13:51

Part of me likes the idea of trying to go for a straight trade, while another part thinks GoW might be less likely to try a doublecross if they stand to get something on the back end of the deal too. I'd be interested to see other opinions on the matter.

Alva, your proposed message to ND looks okay to me.

**Shiber** · February 25, 2003, 14:00

Originally posted by nbarclay
Shiber's proposal would be great if GoW has the spare gold lying around, but considering the war they've been involved in, my bet is that they won't.

Can't we ask for 7 gpt (= 140 gold) instead, and later return 170 gold?

**Shiber** · February 25, 2003, 14:05

Originally posted by alva
2. They get the tech long before us, thus that equals the gold.

I disagree. CoL has no real worth, it is only a prerequisite. If this was Literature, for example, we could have asked for more gold since they'll be able to build libraries faster, but not in the case of CoL.
In other words, prereq. techs have no real worth while you're researching something else, so we shouldn't pretend that CoL does.

**Shiber** · February 25, 2003, 14:09

Originally posted by alva
Proposed message to ND, if noone object within a couple of hours it will be sent.

I object. They'll just offer HBR plus some gold which we don't want. We need to make them an offer first, and I recommend that it'd be:
1. Deal #1: CoL for 150 gold; Deal #2: MM for 180 gold.
2. Deal #1: CoL for 7 gpt; Deal #2: MM for 170 gold.
IMHO both options should be presented to GoW, so that they could choose, depending on the status of their treasury.

Announcement

Diplomacy Scholia: selling CoL

Diplomacy Scholia: selling CoL

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