Is "Draft Border Treaty 3" acceptable?

[nbarclay]

I just sent a new draft border proposal to the GS mailbox and the usual suspects. It's based on the original draft border treaty that Jon and I hashed out in chat, but with Dissidentville in its actual settled location and our northernmost city moved 9 to the coast so it can build a harbor and use some coast tiles to achieve a viable size. Do we want to push this as a final negotiated border with Vox?

Edit: I gave the poll a 1-day time limit since we've already hashed out the issue a fair amount and we need to get moving before Vox settles another "let's stretch the borders" city.

Edit: The subject heading on the e-mail is "New Border Treaty Draft." The "Draft Border Treaty 3" title comes from the name on the .jpg itself.

Edit: General Theseus wants our city that will use the second iron moved up against the mountain. Let's regard that as the new official map we're voting on.

Nathan

[Theseus]

Hmm...

I'm more or less fine with the plan, but I'll throw out some considerations:

* NW-most town: I hate putting towns next to mountains / hills, but I could make the argument here... place it 9, and guarantee control of the iron.

* NE-most town: In general, this area is packed at 2-tile spacing. The ability to build a harbor here is good, but similarly, I could make an arument for moving it 1, thus guaranteeing control of the adjacent mountain.

BTW, if I were recommending sites to Vox, I would move the inland town 4, thus maintaining a jungle shield and easing their ability to road / connect.

[Harovan]

Fine with me, although it would be good to make sure we get the iron as backup. Iron is the most valuable resource in this game, I guess, so let's not risk ending up without iron.

[Theseus]

SR, are you resonding to my post?

That was sort of my point, that we control a second iron.

[nbarclay]

The big question is whether we want to take a chance of Vox's ending up with the iron through culture or whether we wnat to take a chance on their ending up with it through military action. How about if we propose the border to Vox on terms where we're allowed to build our city in either location depending on our preference when the time comes?

Nathan

[Theseus]

I prefer surety. Please try to negotiate the border treaty such that we are directly adjacent to the iron.

[nbarclay]

Okay, let's make that the official proposal we're voting on then: the city claiming our second iron moved 9 from its proposed location, up against the mountain. I added an edit to the initial message of the thread to reflect this change.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by nbarclay
The big question is whether we want to take a chance of Vox's ending up with the iron through culture or whether we wnat to take a chance on their ending up with it through military action. How about if we propose the border to Vox on terms where we're allowed to build our city in either location depending on our preference when the time comes?

Nathan

I'm not worried about Vox military action. they are settling their early cites in impossible situations production wise.

Even if they could figure out how to put up a fight, they will not have the forces to do so.

[Theseus]

nye, I've probably been insulting Vox as much as anyone (and thye deserve it).

But let us also assume the worst...

Down the road, I worry horribly about mountains next to our towns / cities. We'll want Spearmen on key defensive positions, preferably roaded and in forts.

[Conqueror]

I voted yes, the deal is acceptable if our NWmost town is moved 9, as suggested.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Theseus
SR, are you resonding to my post?

No, I was just seconding you.

[zeit]

I'm glad to see this (final, hopefuly) draft is getting the support it needs. I vote yes for this one- let's get this over with. Hopefuly Vox will have the sense to accept this, and save what is left of their chances to become a developed civ, and a worthy partner.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I voted no. I am against set borders. There is too much order being brought out from the chaos. A chaotic game will benefit us more then them because we have more skill on our side.

[DeepO]

I don't like to have the iron city moved inwards, so we lose a coast to work... I liked the original, 3rd border treaty better.

So, I voted yes (if I'm not too late, this thread is getting 1 day old), for the original. Or the other, anything that resolves this matter quickly, but well thought.

DeepO

[alva]

Just a small observation, but if they settle the one tile isthmus, we won't be able to pass it.

(if we would ever try to invade Lux (together with Vox), this will make things alot more complicated)