What should we do in regard to borders with Vox?

[nbarclay]

Dominae suggested a poll on this, so I'll go ahead and start one. I'm setting a two-day time period, so please take your time voting unless you're sure your mind can't be changed.

[nbarclay]

By the way, the latest proposal would give Vox around 70 land tiles and us around 120 (not counting coast and sea) if I counted correctly. The one Jon and I hashed out previously left them a few less and us a few more. Vox's size (and especially production capacity) relative to ours would be a lot smaller than a comparison of numbers of cities alone would indicate.

[Conqueror]

I dont like the fact that in the latest proposal they have 2 of the visible iron sources and we only have 1

If our iron scource depletes, as it very often does in civ3, that would leave us in very vulnerable position.

I think borders should be so that we had a chanse to gain 2 iron sources, especially if they have more iron sources near their core.

[nbarclay]

We have iron both by Hurricane and in the Spinebreakers. In my most recent proposal, the iron in the Spinebreakers is within the theoretical city radius of both a Voxian city and one of ours, but there would have to be a clear understanding that Vox won't boost their culture to make a grab for it. (An early temple should give us the initial cultural advantage.) In the version Jon and I worked out previously, our city was the only one that had that iron in its radius.

[Conqueror]

Originally posted by nbarclay
We have iron both by Hurricane and in the Spinebreakers. In my most recent proposal, the iron in the Spinebreakers is within the theoretical city radius of both a Voxian city and one of ours, but there would have to be a clear understanding that Vox won't boost their culture to make a grab for it. (An early temple should give us the initial cultural advantage.) In the version Jon and I worked out previously, our city was the only one that had that iron in its radius.

In that case, IF its made very clear that they do not persue culture in that city, and we build temple in ours there immediately, its almost acceptable, but still, i'd like to move our 2nd iron city one tile northwards of the coast, that way it would be sure that we would always have the 2nd iron in our radius.

[Shiber]

Let's leave the matter of culture in the gray area. We are better than Vox in micromanagement, and our city competing on the iron source has a better location, so we can win this war.
If we explicitly tell them not to compete with us on cultural control over that iron source, they will want something in return for that promise. Might as well make this a race, that IMHO we can surely win.

[Conqueror]

Originally posted by Shiber
Let's leave the matter of culture in the gray area. We are better than Vox in micromanagement, and our city competing on the iron source has a better location, so we can win this war.
If we explicitly tell them not to compete with us on cultural control over that iron source, they will want something in return for that promise. Might as well make this a race, that IMHO we can surely win.

True, we are Religious and they are not, this is a clear advantage in this case. Still we may need to whip the temple there if we are still in despotism when we have the city founded up there.

[DeepO]

Culture / religion: we will probably want to build libraries instead of temples... religious is a disadvantage over scientific. If we want to outculture Vox, who needs border expansions (and thus will go for libraries), we have to produce both a temple and a library. I don't consider this ideal, so anything we can get without a cultural superiourity: please.

DeepO

[Shiber]

Originally posted by Conqueror
True, we are Religious and they are not, this is a clear advantage in this case. Still we may need to whip the temple there if we are still in despotism when we have the city founded up there.

That's where another advantage of the religious trait comes into play - we'll be in republic faster than Vox will.

[zeit]

Aren't we getting a bit off topic here, i mean, we better discuss the details of the borders first, then do what we can to achieve our objectives (like claiming the Iron).

I think a division of 70-120 tiles is quite fair, but of course we should come with a higher demand when we return to the table, so of course we should point out that the first offer (the one with a bit more tiles for us) is the best one, and if they insist, we can say something like: "well, maybe if we can sort the Iron issue (in our favor...) something can be done."
I'll go for option #2, and only in case of any serious danger for the whole thing collapsing, we maybe we can compromise for a tile or two, in exchange for them accepting our claim on that Iron.

[Shiber]

Agreed.
Btw, IMHO it's important that we place Vox's cities as if we're placing ours, assuming that they will, in fact, be ours eventually.

[Arrian]

I don't like the border plan (either).

REX it out.

-Arrian

[zeit]

Btw, IMHO it's important that we place Vox's cities as if we're placing ours, assuming that they will, in fact, be ours eventually.

That's right Shiber!, you shouldv'e seen it in the chat, Nathan and Jon actually sat down and discussed the city placement strategy that Vox should use, even on their northern territories. It seems they're more insecure about their play than was first thought, if they are willing to except Nathan plan, or at least consider it without feeling a bit insulted (which was not the case, or so it seemed).

[Lawrence of Arabia]

REX it out.

[Dominae]

Thanks for putting up this poll, Nathan.



I'll vote when I finish studying the maps yet another time, and form a solid opinion.


Dominae