The REAL Turn 42

[nbarclay]

To be edited by the leaders of the Scholia.

Status:
- Researching Writing at zero (so in effect researching nothing)
- 63 gold cash, +12 per turn.

Urgent questions:
- Do we want to agree to exchange all techs learned by both us and Vox for an indefinite period of time? By my agreement with Jon, if we accept the Alphabet-for-Iron trade (assuming it's offered), we agree to either accept that arrangement or provide some other kind of compensation to Vox (to be determined) for the fact that they could get Alphabet cheaper from Lux.

Military:
- Grog attacks the barbarian camp unless he has been injured by an earlier barbarian attack, in which case he fortifies.
- New settler moves 1 (second move on path 1-1-1-4 to Bolderberg site).
- Slash moves 2 toward Bolderberg site (unless Grog gets killed, in which case he heads north to take Grog's place).

Economy:
- Finish the tech trade (assuming it's offered) if and only if we're willing to accept the conditions attached. See urgent question.
- Worker #1 finished with road; moves 1-2 along road to prepare to connect Bolderberg and its horses.
- Worker #2 finished with chop, starts irrigating.
- No changes to cities.

Diplomacy:
- Tentative agreement reached with Vox regarding the tech situation if GS approves it. See the "urgent question."

[Conqueror]

Re: The REAL Turn 42

Originally posted by nbarclay

Diplomacy:
- Still trying to get Vox to live up to its end of the tech deal.

If they dont, we should consider making it public knowledge to other teams that their words are not to be trusted.

[Harovan]

Re: The REAL Turn 42

Originally posted by nbarclay
Urgent questions:
- What do we do if Vox doesn't offer Iron Working this turn?

I think we should wait for their diplomatic response. We have enough hours on the counter, that we can afford this. Let's look first, what they answer and what's their tone.

What concerns the voxian email addresses for sending the F8 screenie, they are in dejons info thread in the main forum.

Eli: shadowmn at netvision dot net dot il
Dissident: Krusher3X at yahoo dot com

[Shiber]

Just so I get this straight, Vox told us that they would finish Iron Working on their turn 41, or on turn 42?
I didn't quite catch when their diplomatic message was received (I was asleep while all the action was taking place).

[DeepO]

Yeah, that was also going to be my question, when exactly would they finish, provided they tell the thruth (which I doubt)

Definately wait for a response, we've got enough time to avoid having to waste any commerce.

DeepO

[Shiber]

I REALLY hope that they're telling the truth. If they're not, it means that they may have decided to doublecross us, whereas if they're honest, it means that they are SLOW. In fact, MUCH slower than I expected they would be.
More likely, they're just trying to bend us in order to delay our research, or they may be testing their boundaries. I assume that their strategy is to break them sooner or later anyway, so they might as well find out how long they can stretch our patience and diplomatic front before the bubble bursts before the moment of truth arrives.

[zeit]

I say we research writing, we won't have to worry about an attack for a while, and it would just be a waste to start building an army in the near future. We must focus on REX and make preparation, so IMHO, IW can wait untill we finish writing. I don't think Vox is doublecrossing, but in fact, as always, trying to delay us. We shouldn't play their game and hinder our advancement. We can make Vox doublecross (unlikely IMO, but there is a possibility) public when it is more convenient for us. I think that if we wait a little longer, and tell other teams of Vox's other deeds (which are sure to come...) we can gain more favor and get a worldwide support for attacking Vox.

[Theseus]

Is there some way to start researching IW (just in case), and have the trade value of it decrease each turn, so that if and when Vox DOES come to its senses we can negotiate a proper trade? (e.g., they have to give us IW and a certain amount of gold)

[Shiber]

Nah, they'll start crying that we are offering them a lesser deal and cancel it. They'll have legal backing to that: changing the details of this predetermined deal is just the same as violating a contract - the deal is off.

I agree with Zeit. Vox knows exactly what they're doing, and that is delaying our research. We need to start on writing immediately.

[Harovan]

No, we need Iron Working before Writing.

[nbarclay]

Re: Re: The REAL Turn 42

Originally posted by Sir Ralph

What concerns the voxian email addresses for sending the F8 screenie, they are in dejons info thread in the main forum.

Eli: shadowmn at netvision dot net dot il
Dissident: Krusher3X at yahoo dot com

Shall I go ahead and send the cropped F8 (reduced to just the Histograph section) to those two addresses, then?

[nbarclay]

If Vox started a barracks right after The Voice disappeared from the F11 chart, they could rush us with four immortals by the time we could even just research both Writing and Iron Working, much less get iron hooked up (unless we get super-lucky and have iron on Bolderberg's hill). I don't think it's likely, but considering that such a rush could put us out of the game if Vox gets good RNG results, I don't think it's a risk worth taking.

In regard to trying to change the deal, remember that Iron Working is the more expensive tech. Right now we have Vox's commitment to an even swap since they got a more expensive tech in the first stage, but we lose that commitment if we try to demand gold in addition to the tech.

Once things reach a point where it is clear enough that Vox is breaking their commitment that we would feel fully comfortable bringing our case before other teams, we might take the position, "Okay, you've broken your deal with us. We're going ahead and researching Iron Working, and if you want to redeem your word so that we do not spread warnings to other nations regarding your lack of honor, you have to complete the promised trade and pay us back for the gold we lose due to your initial refusal to keep your word." But I think we'd need to allow at least a couple more turns before we'll have a good enough case to bring before the court of international public opinion.

[Harovan]

Re: Re: Re: The REAL Turn 42

Originally posted by nbarclay
Shall I go ahead and send the cropped F8 (reduced to just the Histograph section) to those two addresses, then?

Sure, do it, the earlier the better.

[nbarclay]

I just got the following from Jon Miller:

I think that Beta expressed our concerns, but did so improperly. Looking over his messages, he told you where we would have been if we had not traded for Iron Working (With our close neighbors to the north). I must admit that we are somewhat worried about your nation, appearing to research so much faster than us and to be better located also. In any case, we just got Iron Working recently (which means that we could do our deal), but would rather get alphabet much much more cheaply from another source. Is there anyway we could get writing from you for ironworking? It is what the other civ wants right now, actually, but we cannot provide them with it in any timely matter (alphabet is so common for them that they are willing to give it away for cheap). We would be willing to give you iron working now, in exchange for writing later.

[Theseus]

Holy schizophrenia, Batman!!

Do I get this right... they are offering to GIVE us IW??!!

Like I said, unstable. How about IW now for Writing and contact later?