Turn 31

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Theseus
What are our plans for the Worker?

Our first worker's next move is 6 so he can chop, irrigate, and road the northerly of the two forest furs he's near. The worker being produced by Hurricane will do the same to the forest fur adjacent to Hurricane.

[Theseus]

Shouldn't we at some point road the two irrigated fur tiles?

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Theseus
Shouldn't we at some point road the two irrigated fur tiles?

Our first two irrigated fur tiles have no real need for roads until either Republic, Monarchy, or a GA, and even then, roads there would be less valuable than roads on other tiles we're working (or equally valuable in the case of Monarchy). Since workers will be in short supply for quite some time to come, those tiles are unlikely to be roaded until our REXing phase is almost over.

By the way, note that EotS gets the benefit of furs when our first worker finishes its road, and Hurricane gets it when the worker from Hurricane finishes its road. So we don't need roads in the original fur tiles for access to luxuries either - at least not until we have trade routes with more civs that want furs than we have furs available for trade.

Nathan

[Dominae]

Roading those tiles will do nothing until Republic or Monarchy. They can potentially produce 3 trade (1 road, 1 river, 1 furs), but Despotism only allows 2 of those. And, given the local geography, roads would not help movement around that area (assuming we road the other fur tiles after we chop and irrigate).


Dominae

[Theseus]

I never knew the "2" production limit under despotism applied to gold as well.

[Harovan]

Turn received. The trade deal has been accepted, we have Bronze Working now. The Voxian scouts were withdrawn farther, probably north (I can't see them anymore). Hurricane finished a Warrior and can make a Worker in 4 turns by both food and shields. EotS will grow again next turn. Since we have a Warrior there, the fifth citizen should be content, no happiness issues.

I didn't have the time to play the turn, take shots, post scores etc., before I went to work (where I am right now). But no pressure, our Green hours have just begun and will last 7 hours. In about 9 hours I arrive at home and can play the turn. Meanwhile, we should discuss, what to do with our Warriors.

[nbarclay]

Looks like your calculated risk changing to Alphabet paid off. Fantastic!

How about if we go ahead and move Grog and Slash down to the mountain as an extra sign of good faith? We'll learn about the new city when they build it since we've already seen the land, and if Vox were planning a doublecross, they'd have to be very good actors to fake such reluctance to our propoed deal. From there, I'd like to see Grog fortify and Slash go back and check out that tiny bit of coast Grog missed earlier.

I also get the impression that Vox didn't understand my invitation for them to station Tim and Willy farther forward. (My idea was for Willy to take up a post on the northernmost mountain north of Hurricane and Tim to take up a position 4-4-4 from that, thereby giving them about as good a warning as we have.) My suggestion is for me to re-issue the invitation and for us not to get in the way of Vox's warriors moving into those positions. That, coupled with Grog's withdrawal, should overcome their concern about the disparity in how far away the two sides' forward observers are. (Yes, I still want good relations with Vox; at the very least, they still have at least one contact we'll want when we get Writing.)

The new warrior in Hurricane, of course, heads toward EotS.

Nathan

[nbarclay]

Hurricane finished a Warrior and can make a Worker in 4 turns by both food and shields.

That won't last because EotS will need the other irrigated fur for two turns once it grows. (No changes needed this turn in connection with that; just looking ahead.) We should be looking at five turns building the worker: one on irrigated fur, then two on unimproved grassland, and then two back on irrigated fur once our settler is finished.

[DeepO]

I think Slash could move to the unexplored mountain right away (I don't know by heart if it would be a detour to follow Grog for 1 turn).

Re: Voxian forward scouts: I can't imagine they want a war with us right now, and if they want to, they will need their scouts to upgrade to immortals (yeah, reg immortals ). Don't push the issue, let them choose where they want to observe us. So, don't write them a separate note telling them we like them closer, but the next message you sent, it's alright to put it in a PS or so... as long as you pack it as a gift to them

DeepO

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by DeepO
I think Slash could move to the unexplored mountain right away (I don't know by heart if it would be a detour to follow Grog for 1 turn).

The unexplored land I'm referring to is farther away. When Grog first did his exploring, he headed up along the hills by the western coast for a while but then headed back east before getting all the way north. That leaves a single presumed coast tile that we haven't uncovered yet, and a couple presumed sea tiles farther out where whales may lurk. Since we only really need one warrior to watch for Voxian troops on the move, I figured slash could go back and check that out. (Actually, Hack could do it a whole lot more quickly, but he's busy shadowing Tim.) Actually, now that I'm looking for them, I can find about half a dozen other presumed sea tiles within potential city radii along our western coast that haven't been uncovered yet.

Re: Voxian forward scouts: I can't imagine they want a war with us right now, and if they want to, they will need their scouts to upgrade to immortals (yeah, reg immortals ). Don't push the issue, let them choose where they want to observe us. So, don't write them a separate note telling them we like them closer, but the next message you sent, it's alright to put it in a PS or so... as long as you pack it as a gift to them

I'm not saying we'd like them closer, but if they feel like we're demanding that they go farther back than what we really expect, that could leave a bad taste in their mouths. My thought was to word a note in a spirit of, "We think you may have misunderstood our idea regarding forward observers. If you want to, you can move your scouts to..." (Of course the actual wording would be a bit fancier.)

[DeepO]

Wouldn't it be better to explore the North coast before going West? We may end up being blocked by territory before we can reach North again... of course, the Western coast should be fully explored too.

okay on the note to their warriors.

DeepO

[Harovan]

I'm heading home now, but can't play the turn anyway due to the file corruption issue.

[zeit]

Please- leave nothing less than two warriors on the Isthmus area, we must always have the chance to block their passage south when we want/need to. That one tile is nothing to waste that many turns in grog/slash going all the way south and north for. Leave the observers there, we threat no one, and secure our holding in the region (or at least as much as they do with their warriors).

Also on this issue- i will open a threat regarding our rights in the division of the land- Vox's claim on the lands south up to the tip of the Spinebreaker mountains is absurd- our warriors met there warriors along a line that streches from coast to coast and goes through that tile to the north ("8") of that wheat tile surrounded by jungle (and then the Voxian warriors retreated, to block the isthmus, only to return the turn after when their third warrior secured the isthmus).

[DeepO]

Zeit, I don't like to lay down borders now at all, it is something that will grow. Of course, their claims are absurd, but do they now already that from now on, we can build more then double the settlers they can?

Plus, purely looking at it in a distance way isn't exactly right: their land is much narrower then ours, we can put down more cities concentrated around EotS. And we need to (at least for a while), as our best production centers will be to the South of us, while Vox is North. For them, these two directions (border with us and production) falls both to their South East...

Re: blocking: I don't think we can. They are less aggressive for now, so we should be too. We should keep one warrior there as a show of goodwill, and complain the moment we see any troop appearing.

DeepO

[nbarclay]

We first met Vox in between the Spinebreaker Mountains and what I'll call Lookout Ridge, the lone mountain directly north of the Spinebreakers. I view that area as "first come, first served," but only if the civ that tries to claim it has filled in essentially all the land closer to home first. Staking a claim there just to block the other civ's expansion would be a hostile act.

In regard to the idea of preserving the possibility of a blockade, as long as we have things we want from Vox, a blockade would be a bad idea. They would be at least as furious about it as we were about the isthmus situation. If Vox behaves themselves, we don't need the blockade, and if Vox doesn't intend to behave themselves, I'd rather know sooner than later. So I see no particular value in maintaining two warriors in the area.

Nathan