DIPLO: comments on Rollplay log

[nbarclay]

I'd just as soon lay low. From Jon's conversation with NYE, it sounds like they're already probably going to do something that will probably be suicidal for them (going ahead and attacking Arashi now), so why rock the boat?

[DeepO]

Hmmm... maybe it's best to postpone this message for after Vox' next turn. However, that would also mean we can't influence GoW via this channel, and maybe that's more important then Vox.

Theseus, I agree that by screaming that you are strong, others could get the feeling that in reality you're weak, however we have done enough of that so far, and the few sporadic remarks as to the strength of Vox have made us look weak already, I think. The reason I don't want to scream here is because this is RP, and already they are using their personal preferences to direct diplomacy (well, GodKing not, but Togas). I don't want to become even more arrogant in their eyes.

Maybe it's better to do this first: What do we want to achieve through the back channel now?
1. I don't think we really need it, so simply some communication to keep the contact alive would be best, I think. Nothing heavy, simply some friendly chitchat.
2. Vox: I'd like to say to RP that Vox is strong, for the only reason that perhaps they won't sponsor Vox anymore, as they think they have reached their goal: GS being so involved in the war that we can't build or advance relative to them
3. GoW-ND: any more tension on Bob is perfect, we should, very slightly of course, push them some more. Maybe Togas can't be pushed, but GK can
4. RP defensive situation: GK is a warmonger as he says himself, the comments on RP having a long defense line which is relatively easy to attack were just to put some more fear in their hearts. Plus, it can double as a friendly wanring not to get in the same situation as us
5. We having their map, and telling we have (GS+Vox combined) less then their territory: let them worry about their own territory, instead of thinking we have too mch space
6. Lego: Very friendly, but I don't see a reason to not mention the pyramids, and the size of their continent. If RP would start seeing Lego as the biggest competitors instead of us, maybe we can fly beneath the score radar again
7. Also related to the ND-GoW tension: mention that chivalry is coming fast, so ask for Feudalism deal. Mentioning we don't need it, but would want more gold any way is needed, however I agree that last message wasn't perfect in that respect

That's about it... any more things we want to say? Or do you not agree with something said here?

DeepO

BTW:

Originally posted by alva
Organised chaos is very difficult to achieve

You should see my desk

[OPD]

I know it sounds daft but I think we should look into having better relations with RP. Once the dust settles they will be w/o their main ally (probably why their so pissed) on bob where I believe gow and ND and tight.

If vox and RP were to be serious long term partners is it really that improbable that we could take vox's place.

Even if this is too ridiculous we need to look more at our international relations. If we carry on the way we are I believe a bobian alliance against us is on the cards and I think that others may agree with me.

[zeit]

Don't forget that 3-way alliances are quite unstable, compared to a duo...

I just wonder in which way we could hope to improve relations.

[vulture]

If we only had a tech to trade...

We could always start researching engineering - it'd give us something to trade for theology and chivalry at least, and sell to others for cash. The benefit to us of crossing rivers unimpeded is probably less use now (it would have been handy before) but could still come in useful for moving troops east-west in the event of a surprise landing.

[OPD]

I was thinking more along the lines of just contacting them to cool the air. Then maybe something like we believe vox are/were you main ally, GS see no reason from our side why we can't establish closer relations, maybe leading to a similar sort of relationship you had with vox.

Although it's important to hear what other people think. Especially if there is a concensus view that RP should be our next target.

[Arrian]

I just read up on the RP diplo log and wow, there was some info in there I hadn't been aware of. Interesting reading.

I think I like Dejon, btw. Seems like a stand-up guy, and someone who we can deal with. Unfortunately, he's military, not diplo.

-Arrian

[OPD]

From my experience Godking's a decent guy too, open minded at least.

[Arrian]

Yeah, seems like it. I actually just PM'd him. I was going to respond to his "why hasn't anyone mentioned Legoland" comment in the public forum, but then thought better of it, and PM'd him instead.

My basic response was "well, yeah, but what the hell can we do about it?"

-Arrian

[DeepO]

Arrian, can you post that PM in the log, together with his response? That's just as well diplo communication

And I agree, GK surely seems like a decent guy, the only problem is that you don't know what are his opinions, and what are RP's. I'm pretty sure he got a remark from Togas on his Lego comment... BTW, IIRC, he posted that to me before, in nearly the exact same words. This is not something that happened last night, possibly RP is planning something.

DeepO

[OPD]

I have a PM from GK concerning RP. While talking about SPDG stuff I mentioned that I thought vox were RP's main allies, he replied with something about how they had helped vox a little at the start but not millitarily and then goes on to talk about RP's millitary. Apparently they have alot of defensive units.

[Shiber]

Interesting. This could affect our strategy when we finally make time to deal with RP.
We have to land near a city that is distant enough from their northern border that they will not be able to move defensive units from their border towns by the time that we can attack after our landing. We should advance into positions from where we could attack several different tiles, thus forcing RP to spread their defenses across these tiles. We also have to carry a lot of bombardment units with us, because with so many units they'll be a hard nut to crack.

[Arrian]

PMs posted in the log thread, as requested.

-Arrian

[OPD]

Here's what he actually said. I no longer have the pm I sent him. This seems a bit weird to me though I just said a few things about vox being their main ally and how I'd like to see better relations between us and RP then get this reply which ends up talking about millitary secrets. Although usually he replies quite quickly this one took a few hours to come back and goes a bit too off the original topic. Almost as if he's trying to tell me/us something or trying to make us believe something. I may be paranoid but I get the feeling he's spoke to other RP members and come up with this as they want GS to think that

1. They didn't help vox that much and weren't very close allies.
2. They are mainly concerned with ND and GOW.
3. They have alot of defensive units.

sent about 13 hours ago 1am UK time
I don't really understand why. Although we supported Vox for a bit (mostly because we sensed thay would win) we have not provided any real military support to them. I know that thay are now asking for some because of your settler/pike (& lone Flail) stacks. What togas does is... well, I don't know. Most of us on the team are just goofing off... I was the first one killed in the spanish inquisition (we are playing spain in case you forgot). We have nothing against GS other than they were beating us in techs, which is something we wanted to do. Our focus is really on defending from ND adn GoW to our north (would you trust them). We have so many defensive units... well, let me put it this way, if half of them were offensive, I would be taking the last GoW city on the mainland, and ND would have been gone a while ago. Oh well.


Overall I wouldn't read too much into this and certainly wouldn't let it affect policy.

I'd appreciate it if no mentioned that I've posted this here as it is meant to be a private message.

[vulture]

Lets not forget NDs comment that RP was planning to attack us soon.

Possibilities:

RP are supporting Vox, and are planning to attack us. The info from OPD is so much hot air, and isn't worth the pixels it's printed on.

RP are worried about being invaded by a combined ND/GoW offensive from the north, and having seen one of our galleys (I believe), know (or suspect) that we could take advantage of a war to stage a naval invasion. They dno't plan to attack us (and either sent disinformation to ND, or ND lied) Knowing how the mil. advisor weights units, they want us to believe that, since they are mostly defensive units, they have a *lot* of them - the message being "you'll need a huge invasion to make any ground, so yuo'd better wait a while until your force is big enough - oops, we're not at war in the north any more, so you missed your chance".

RP aren't supporting Vox, but are going to attack us as ND suggested, hoping to secure more land. Having claimed a good chunk of Bob, they see the opportunity to invade us (somehow) while our forces are tied down. They don't want us to believe that they are capable to mustering a good enough invasion force, so we won't worry too much about defending against the possibility. (How much warning will our galleys give us if RP do have a fleet coming down either coast?)

Probably other possibilities as well. As OPD says, the information basically amounts to nothing, since we have no idea whether it is reliable or not (although RP have usually been reliable in the past, as I understand it, Machievellian politics aside).

I bet they're not saying to ND "we are mostly concerned with defending against you and GoW..."