DIPLO: comments on Rollplay log

[DeepO]

Nathan, my thoughts exactly. I don't think that any of RP's offers are very good, but we can use that in our negotiations of course.

But keep this in mind: if we want to keep friendly relations with RP, we need to trade with them. If they suspect Vox is like our little brother to us (we share everything atm), I think their feelings for us will detoriate.

DeepO

[DeepO]

X-posted:

Waht about telling them that Vox has been asking us for a shared gold cost: they seem to be selling our contacts to everyone they meet, and dare to ask us for some extra gold as part of the deal? Which would explain that we're only paying 8 gold for contact with GoW, as it is already (part of) a deal by GoW, where GoW buys contact to us?

DeepO

[Shiber]

I don't see how contact with ND can give us any benefits at least in the next 3-4 turns.
It is possible that RP wants to get into the war as well, and they need the gold for upgrades. In that case, they'd be much more interested in selling that we'd be interested in buying.
Let's play the waiting game for now and let the price drop by itself.

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by DeepO

But keep this in mind: if we want to keep friendly relations with RP, we need to trade with them. If they suspect Vox is like our little brother to us (we share everything atm), I think their feelings for us will detoriate.

We've already made RP a pretty firm offer for a future trade when we get CoL and they get Literature, so it's not as if they'll view us as uninterested in trading at all just because we aren't inclined to pay gold for something right now.

Nathan

[DeepO]

True, Nathan... I forgot about that. It seems so far in the future (2 weeks!), and no real promise of a trade was commited this far, that it is easy to see our relation as too slow, even if it's not true.

Re: Vox: maybe it would be a good idea to include in next message to Vox some kind of message across of: "Look at the mess on the other continent, glad we are living friendly side by side. We'll both gain considerable opposed to all the warring civs..." Just some chit-chat, which can only make them more gracious to us

DeepO

[FrustratedPoet]

bump for Shiber

[DeepO]

(continuing from the other thread)

Hmm.. you may have a point. But I assume that RP knows that GoW has built 2 island cities close to Lego, I was trying to get to that without telling them we knew of those cities.

As to hinting that we want any action against Lego: I didn't do that, did I? I tried to be careful to avoid it, but it's a thin line in those kind of unofficial communications.

DeepO

[Aeson]

It was more a warning. I think Togas is trying to get us on the bad side of Lego. You didn't really address it directly, which is probably the way we should go for now. If we ever say something to the effect of 'sure, let's talk about anti-Lego possibilities", Togas' next message will probably be "We will deny this message ever was sent. GS is considering an alliance against you. We just thought you should know" sent to Lego.

Our biggest fear is Lego. They are refusing to sell their map, and GoW is currently exploring their coast. Thay appear to have a very very large landmass and are happily expanding and growing without any interference. As it appears, they will win this game shortly. Depending on how things go here durring the mideval age, we may have to discuss this in the future. I advise you to start considering this now as planning will be key.

[DeepO]

Togas is definately trying to manipulate us, but I wouldn't mind playing along, as long as they can't sent messages like that to Lego (which they most certainly will do). It's the only way we can do the same to them, because I'm not convinced yet they are immune for this kind of propaganda. Yes, they are puppetmasters for sure, but would they notice when someone is pulling their strings?

DeepO

[DeepO]

BTW, I think I'm going to mention to vondrack that RP is seeking an alliance

(unofficially, of course)

DeepO

[DeepO]

Another beauty from the e-mail:

Chivalry doesn't interest us, but I am sure ND and GoW are VERY interested as that will provide them with their UU's. At that time will things get interesting here on Bob, I am quite sure. Therefore, we are activally interested in making sure that they DON'T get that particular tech until we say so. Any thoughs on this?

Note the wording: until we say so. They really consider themselves puppetmasters

As to the deal: we can tell them we can't keep them from getting it, however, for the right price, we can delay it for a while. It's difficult to estimate an eta on chivalry with the current situation, but we are relatively certain that we will be first to get it, and if GoW and ND are smart, they will buy it from us instead of going for it themselves.

However, we do not lie, so if we tell GoW and ND they will get it at a certain turn, they will get it for sure. If they want to delay chivalry, they need to come up with a deal very soon...

DeepO

[Shiber]

Perhaps RP were lying when they said that GoW made an offer for Feudalism... ?

[DeepO]

Nah... but they may have been lieing about timing: GoW could have made that offer 5 turns ago.

It's always possible that they have lied to us, but it's more RPs style to simply tell half-thruths in such a way that a different thruth is formed. Quite artistic even, those lawyer practises

DeepO

[DeepO]

We will probably go with them in this regards as we are hurting for gold right now (we have been purchasing most of our techs as we are commercial).

Something I didn't spot at first: they claim they have no gold left, but they wouldn't be researching right now, and be in Monarchy, being nearly as good as us commerce wise (us having more cities, of course)? Doesn't seem right. Maybe they have paid too much on upgrades / manipulation of Bob / Vox. Maybe it's simply not true. But there is no reason why they couldn't afford a 12 gpt deal, if it would start in a couple of turns.

DeepO

[Shiber]

We all know RP likes to play games...
But for the sake of it, let's go along with it. If anyone should talk to Togas or any of his merry men and they try to mess with your mind, pretend that you are taking their bait. Don't act too gullible though, or they might suspect.
Only if they are convinced that we are taking their baits can we make their efforts turn against them (as was successfully demonstrated yesterday, thanks to DeepO's comments to RP and Aeson and Alva on #GoW.