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Call To Power 2 Cradle 3+ mod in progress: https://apolyton.net/forum/other-games/call-to-power-2/ctp2-creation/9437883-making-cradle-3-fully-compatible-with-the-apolyton-edition
Ok, trial run: Since the time limit is up, I would suggest that DeepO PM Darekill and tell him that we accept his propasal of the tech trades, and follow up on lux: is there any way to stop their lux trade with lego?
Did I miss anything?
You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.
It is. MZ was nervous about ND before as well. Let them be divided, and look at each other nervously, and we might have an opening of bonding with one to take the other down. Otherwise, we're looking at a front which we can't break, even now we can't beat a joint GoW-ND alliance
We offer you Atomic Theory for espionage, which is a very good deal for you (seeing as Atomic Theory and electronics are both more than twice as expensive as espionage in beaker cost). All we ask is that we can wait until after Lego discovers it. Further, you receive Navigation from us as a gift.
- which Darekill has acxcepted (see log).
So we're looking at Electronics as well as Mot Trans
well then, I don't see any way or reason to let them have it for free. 2 expensive techs? Hmm.
If they swear on their children that they won't interfere with us, then I suppose we could come to some arrangement, they still need to pay us something though.
Perhaps we need to discuss this with GoW?
An odd situation, I can see where they are coming from, but they need to show us something.
At first blush this seems one sided. I am not sure what they ar eup to, but I would guess they could get MT from Lego for a backstab, so the fear of them having tanks is not as great as otherwise.
The main thing to me is that up till now they have not really done much for us and we have no assurance they will fight on our side.
So they need to convince us, it seems to me. Maybe I do not have all the facts.
Ok I read their post and it is not unreasonable. I think we should be able to reassure them that GoW is not coming for them before the war with Lego.
We expect to see them with MT fairly soon, do we not? If GoW was to attack ND before Lego, that would be bad for us and good for Lego.
I am not sure how much we should be willing to do to convience ND. I am guessing they are worried that it will be a gang job.
If that is the case we can point out to them that it would not be good for us and we are not part of it. If GoW is working with Lego to get after ND, we would be in a tough spot.
Anyway, I would just say that they should do as we are doing and that is to dismiss the idea of a three on one. If that occurs for us or ND, that party would be crushed regardless.
We all must move on as if the 3 on 1 is us on Lego. This means MT will be theirs in what 10 turns or they abouts?
We certainly shouldn't give them MT for free, or for anything below market value (assuming we have any use for 'market value' - do we need more cash at the moment or not?) Market value should also take into account the fact that we'd be making it easier for Lego to get MT (which might just bump up the price by a huge amount).
Agree with vmxa1 basically. We (and ND) have chances to win, which rely on other teams doing certain things (like GoW invading Lego). If that doesn't happen, we're pretty much doomed anyway, so we have to plan and play on the assumption that that is going to happen.
What we can do is let them know exactly when they can expect MT, so that they can time prebuilds exactly to get a whole bunch of tanks the turn they get MT, which will give them some protection against GoW turning their attention southwards once Lego is done.
EDIT: The danger is I suppose that they are using this MT issue to try and gauge whether they are in danger of being flattened by us and GoW, with the Lego thing being entirely made up (and we've talked before about the unstable nature of three-way alliances). If we refuse to trade MT, then maybe they take that as a bad sign, and ally themselves more with Lego again... There's a certain danger whatever we do here, so I think lots of happy diplomatic activity to reassure them might help.
I think we should reassure ND by saying that we think that GoW would be mad to attack them, that we ourselves are depending on GoW to attack Lego and that we'd be happy in principle to trade them Electronics & Mot Trans.
Our main concern is the devaluation of the techs for Lego, so we want to hold back, while their concern is that they could get jumped by GoW meantime.
We don't want to over-price tech to a customer who might go to Lego-Mart instead - as they did before. They've had good prices from us, but that's better for us than losing the customer. We also want to keep sweet with ND, to keep our options open on the road ahead, and particularly to make sure they don't opportunistically side with Lego at an inconvenient moment for us.
More controversially, should we start edging them in the direction of a GoW backstab once Lego is sufficiently beaten? Better to get in with the conspiracies early, as opposed to leaving it later and finding that there is already a plot in place against us.
In which case, we'd want them having MT relatively soon, to start building up a decent tank force to be a reasonable threat to GoW. The downside there is that if GoW notice that ND are becoming more powerful, they might just commit less to the attack on Lego...
This is a bit of a problem... and I didn't anticipated it
(PS: excuse me if I miss a few letters in my word: Thai keybard)
ND is of course scared, however we can't give it to them right now. It would make two techs cheaper to Lego, which will cost us two turns of advantage. Further, it will weaked GoW's attack on Lego, as they fear ND's cold war.
Is there any chance we offer a temporary protection pact to them? Say: the moment we see Lego discover tanks, we trade it to them. Before that time, we guarantee to declare war, and to attack GoW in case they attack them (we need to say this to GoW, obvioulsy). When we invade, this is nulled,. as we trade MT to ND as well.
This can work, if we are able to sell it to GoW as well: Say to MZ: "If you don't want to attack ND, it would be best for the both of us that we agree with ND that we protect them frmo you for as long as they don't have tanks. This to avoid them running to Lego for their techs, and to avoid them having tanks any sooner, thus requiring you to protect against them.
Think about this, I think we can sell it to both teams. Sorry if I won't be around for the diplo stuff, I'll try to log in again tomorrow (but most likely this will be in 36h from now, as tomorrow I'm flying out of Bangkok to Koh Samui...)
The other solution in my eyes would be to sell MT to ND right now, but to ask a premium price (e.g. 40% instead of 20%). But that will at least dent our friendship with GoW.
Oh, addendum to previous post: we can ask that they break all deals with Lego. They are trading lux to them, little duobt about that. We can ask this as price for MT in any regard, preferably the moment we invade
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