Turn 25

[DeepO]

I'm still opposed to any aggresion, before we try to get things right diplomatically. But I agree, on a middle long term planning, we need to build up our military.

Oh, and the granary bug was unfortunate, but no mistake was made: so far we have been careful that everything can be undone. However, I don't like how we are planning it either, but frankly don't see any option given the past few hectic turns. Too much has happened. Maybe it is best if from now on we take longer on our turns, thus slowing the game down... don't forget we agreed on a 24-hour limit, the timecounter is just some play-thing.

DeepO

[DeepO]

No objection on the slider things. At least not from here

DeepO

[DeepO]

But one thing: what about holding the turn until we send a message to Vox, so we are sure they receive it, and if they agree, can move Thadeus?

DeepO

[Harovan]

The timecounter is widely accepted. We would be not wise to be the only civ that ignores it. What we should do is to prepare our turns better, instead of discussing, when the turn is here.

And the last turns weren't hectic. Yes, it happened a lot, but if you consider the city production and science, we changed nothing of our previous plans.

Is does not make sense to wait if Thadeus moves yet. With this turn, we reach the hill. Only next turn we could step on the isthmus.

[DeepO]

if we want to move next turn, Thadeus has to be gone. That's why we need a message across before they played their turn, otherwise me lose a turn no matter the outcome of the negotation.

DeepO

BTW: timecounter: sure, it is widely accepted, but it is no reason for us to do something too fast when we can take our time.

[nbarclay]

Sir Ralph, if you use the fur forest along the river instead of one of the other ones, EotS should not lose any commerce.

[Harovan]

You are right, I overlooked it.

Update: We make the switch for this turn and switch back the next. Sliders go to 2.8.0 for both turns. That gives us 9 beakers each turn and we end up with Pottery in 2 turns and 10 (instead of 9) gold.

[Harovan]

Turn is done, but I delay to send it due to the request from the diplomats. Summary:

- Grog went 8 on the hill.
- Slash went 4 and will move 4-8-8-8 next turns, blocking the isthmus too.
- Hack went 4 and sees Tim again.
- Ouch went 8. Willy is not yet visible, but will reappear soon.

1 irrigated fur plain in EotS switched to the fur forest near the river. Laborer in Hurricane switched to the freed tile. Next turn this will be taken back. Sliders set to 2.8.0. Pottery ready in 2 turns. Gold reserves: 4, making +3 each of the next 2 turns.

Screenshots are on the way.

[Shiber]

Do we still intend to research Bronze Working next, or do we still leave room for tech trades with Vox?

[Harovan]

Turn sent

[DeepO]

Sir Ralph, please take a shot of the power graph, I find it more revealing then F11 at this point in the game!

DeepO

[Harovan]

Ok, sent

[DeepO]

Thanks!

What can be deduced from it (correct me if I'm wrong): Vox has settled its first settler (one turn BEFORE Hurricane), so can't move towards the Neck to build a city there fast. Further, I believe them to be at 4 military units, we are still in front on power, and the difference seem to be holding. The only explanation can be we have more troops, as we don't have any gold ourselves (and most likely, they don't have it either). Maybe they are at 3 troops, but I don't really buy that, so either they chooped too, or got a conscript warrior from a hut which is now defending their capital.

Oh, and most likely they haven't got IW yet, I would suspect a bump when their gold reserve gets augmented with the excess commerce from the slider. OTOH, there may not be any excess, or it could be masked in the settling.

I hope you agree this is valuable information (and correct ), so please include a screenie of the power graph in the following few turns, up until the point we can't deduce anything from it anymore.

DeepO

[edit: changed after into before. Sorry about that ]

[nbarclay]

DeepO, I concur in your analysis that they presumably have four warriors. We're ahead by one warrior-sized blip in the graph. I also concur with the analysis that they probably settled their second city a turn before Hurricane (which is something I'd already suspected from a previous look at the power graph). The blip in the graph during the interim is too big for a warrior and too soon after their settler for a spearman even with a chop assist. (I do wonder, though, how the sizes of warrior blips, spearman blips, and immortal blips compare.)

I'm skeptical as to whether half a dozen gold or so would make a noticeable blip on the power graph. And in any case, if they're timing research the way Sir Ralph is timing ours (not waiting until the last minute to reduce the slider), even if there's a fair amount of gold left over, it won't come all at once.

Nathan

[DeepO]

The problem with these graphs is that they compare as a ratio what is actually two integer numbers. This is why the powergraph is only really useful as long as we haven't met too many civs. One of the results from this is that bumps will get smaller when time progresses, you can already see this happening with the 5 warriors we built.

The larger bump on the lower halve is certainly an extra city, as our city gave an equal bump the other direction. (nearly anyway, there might be a gold difference). But in general, we are still in front (I took a ruler to measure that, but still it's not perfect. Drawing a vertical line in a graphics program should be more accurate), which can only be accounted for by more military strength.

I'm not sure, but my guess is that spears and immortals give a higher bump then warriors, as in the explanation it says "military strength", and we know that in the military advisor this means not purely numbers, but real strength. But still, it's somewhat of a guess, only by building something other then warriors ourselves we'll see the difference.

You're right on how much of a blip gold would give, but absolutely nothing happened last turn. And yes, if they check each turn, and divide the excess, it would be hard to spot. I'd say: don't base any assumptions on this one, it's more like a hunch, an educated guess. The warriors and the city I'm sure of, not the tech.

DeepO