Announcement

**nbarclay** · January 3, 2003, 19:26

One question is whether an early grab for the Neck of Fate by them would hurt us worse or them worse. They would get key territory within their official borders, but unless it's so close to them as to be clearly rightfully theirs, they would give up a lot of relative economic power in the process (both by settling in a high-corruption area and because getting the settler to the city site would take quite a while). Further, there's at least a chance we could take such a city without firing a shot, just by building cities with rush-built temples in strategic locations. (Of course the diplomatic ramifications of such a situation could get a bit unpleasant, especially if we don't wait until we run out of other good city sites before applying the cultural pressure.)

Nathan

**alva** · January 3, 2003, 19:31

So what about building not only one, but 2 warriors in Hurricane ASAP (each one in 4 turns) and go block the isthmus?

I sure don't disagree with this, allthough I would like to see these things happen by diplomatic means only. Which would be a win win situation for us.

**Harovan** · January 3, 2003, 19:46

Originally posted by nbarclay
They would get key territory within their official borders, but unless it's so close to them as to be clearly rightfully theirs, they would give up a lot of relative economic power in the process (both by settling in a high-corruption area and because getting the settler to the city site would take quite a while).

Either way, it's strategically important, and if we don't grab and protect it, they will without any doubt. Why risk? I don't want to settle there yet. Only block with 2 warriors. Why should we have to rush in our territory for our luxuries in order to be there faster than some naughty slipped through Voxian settler? Is it not better to be safe and able to settle in the order we planned?

Further, there's at least a chance we could take such a city without firing a shot, just by building cities with rush-built temples in strategic locations. (Of course the diplomatic ramifications of such a situation could get a bit unpleasant, especially if we don't wait until we run out of other good city sites before applying the cultural pressure.)

How comes you let them dictate where we shall place our cities? And for the diplomatic trouble, ONE measly warrior could prevent us from all this. We can't possibly be so thrifty.

**Randolph** · January 3, 2003, 20:09

For the three northern warriors I say the tasks for importance are.
a. Bock the Neck of Fate
b. Explore Vox's territory
c. Shadow Vox's warriors

Of these 'a' and 'b' are IMHO the most important, we should (again imho) thus move the closest warrior into their territory, and the next two to block the Neck of Fate (we do have three warrior in the general northern area don't we?). Their warriors will therefore not be shadowed, but this doesn't bother me to much as we will know generally were they are (our land area isn't all that big after all). This will leave us with three warrior do defend our cities which should be enough if we build a road between them. (note: I should probably leave an "intoxicated" disclaimer

)

**nbarclay** · January 3, 2003, 20:16

EotS can use a forest fur instead of an irrigated fur for one turn without compromising its growth, so let's go ahead and hurry up on one warrior by having Hurricane use an irrigated fur for one turn and a forest fur for two turns. (We'll need to let Hurricane borrow an irrigated fur for one turn sometime in the next half-dozen turns in any case if we don't want to waste production capacity.) I've favored that all along.

At that point, we can decide based on negotiations with Vox whether working forested furs to hurry up a second warrior makes sense. If we can save a couple turns' food production by using diplomatic rather than military means to limit Voxian expansion, great. If not, I won't object to the plan to build two warriors quickly.

Nathan

**alva** · January 3, 2003, 20:18

I'm not saying/fearing they would attack us... That is highly unlikely, I only want them out because every tile they can 'uncloud', will be so for the remainder of the game..
They will know where our cities are, how big they are and are able to give/sell that info to all.(which could even give hints where we are tech wise btw)
(If nothing else, we could sell it ourselves and make a profit for us.)

**Harovan** · January 3, 2003, 20:19

We should under no circumstances let them slip a city through. Such a city would be a permanent threat. It could be prevented from flipping by garrisoning lots of units there. Units within our territory, mind you! It could be used to disembark 30 knights there and we wouldn't even notice it! In the midst of our land! A bottleneck is easy to defend. We should not give this advantage away, only because we slowed the growth of a city with no tile improvement by 2 turns.

**Randolph** · January 3, 2003, 20:30

Agreed SR, block the bottleneck, and build a city there as soon as it is not economically detrimental.

BTW
1. I didn't get the 2900BC shots in my email (rgrant@zoo.uvm.edu), don't send them because I check the team mailbox. Uvm does have issues (and not just with Email...), but I wanted to let you know in case I wasn't completely added.

2. The team mail inbox in 94% full, permission to delete some old messages?

**alva** · January 3, 2003, 20:34

2. The team mail inbox in 94% full, permission to delete some old messages?

most , if not all screenshots can be deleted.
If someone would still need them for any reason, one of us will have them backed-up (I have).

**nbarclay** · January 3, 2003, 20:41

I have a very strong prejudice against roading over forests (which would be necessary for a military road right now). Chopping before roading saves a turn of the worker's time compared with the opposite order, meaning that everything the worker does for the rest of the game can get done one turn sooner.

Nathan

**DeepO** · January 3, 2003, 21:27

Well, I was for blocking the NoF earlier, and didn't change my mind... but indeed, we need one extra warrior if we are going to shadow both Voxian scouts, and move to block it. Under no circumstance is Grog to return to block, he should proceed with his exploration. If this means we need 2 extra warriors from Hurricane instead of one: so be it. If getting those early mean we lose a bit of growth: so be it too. But if Vox shows any good will, keep the growth as high as possible.

Next question (actually the first one, but I'm sure nobody is paying attention anyhow

): Slash can move 9, and still be in time for the next warrior of the blockade. It would only lose one turn, possibly gaining some more insight in our own territory. So that one is clear for me.

One question from me: What to research next? We are getting close to another tech swap, and I don't want to get in the situation again where we need to discuss what to research while the turn is in our possession. It can be situation dependent, no problem, but we need to know our options.

I favor BW in a number of situations. Not only would it make a possible deal on IW possible (if I count right, they do not have that tech yet), but it would make it possible to defend our spine, with a couple of well placed, fortified spears. At least their immortals wouldn't get through easily (defense of spears, fortified on mountains is 5, if I count correctly). If we would be going for the GLs, we need to start on the alphabet, if we need monarchy soon (for a possible GA), we might need mysticism. But these last two options can only be done if Vox agrees to give us spears, and stays out of our way. We will need spears before we can get to either the GLs, or Monarchy.

DeepO

**DeepO** · January 3, 2003, 21:32

O, Nathan, where did the comment on roading forests came from? I would like to keep that at a minimum too, but if stalling 1 turn means the chop comes at a better moment, I'm for it. Eventually, we are going to need the road on the forested furs anyway, so if it fits a plan where the chops are meaningful: go ahead. Don't forget that moving of a tile, and moving back on it means that worker loses 2 moves. I agreed on all the movement off tiles before it was roaded up until now, as we really needed many worked tiles fast, but we already lost 4 moves because eventually a worker needs to go to the river furs and road them. We can handle those delays, but they shouldn't keep coming.

DeepO

**nbarclay** · January 3, 2003, 21:33

Originally posted by DeepO
We will need spears before we can get to either the GLs, or Monarchy.

Why?

**Harovan** · January 3, 2003, 21:37

I think for the sake of a bit more security. We might be going to face Immortals.

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