First Contact

[ManicStarSeed]

This is what I intend to send to Vox Controli. Please vote accordingly. You may select more than one poll item.

In the spirit of "keeping it moving", It will expire in 24 hours or once 14 "ballots submitted", whichever comes first.

If you feel that some options need alternat wording, please post it.



Greetings again friend BetaHound and Vox Controli:

We hope your journey has been going well. It can always be touch and go with those barbarians. They never are open to reason. With them it’s always kill or be killed. Enough about them, we want to talk about more civilized things, our two great nations and our future relationship.

As an act of good faith, we are willing to cease northern exploration for the duration of these negotiations while asking Vox Controli to cease southward exploration for the same duration.

Gathering Storm has put together several proposals and we would appreciate your open consideration of them. Please feel free to counter-offer where you see fit. Our goal is to negotiate and make deals mutually beneficial. We will consider any deal you are interested in making as well. The following is a list of our proposal

1. Temporary cessation of north/south exploration as described above.
2. We primarily want to open up the possibility of becoming research partners with Vox Controli. Is this something Vox is interested in?
3. How does Vox Controli feel about exchanging information regarding luxuries it possesses (will be roaded by 1000 BC) for the same information from Gathering Storm.
4. We propose simultaneously revealing to each other, the other nations each of us have contacted (in-game) before now. This proposal also includes an exchange of information of who is beyond Gathering Storm for who is beyond Vox Controli. Is Vox Controli interested?
5. As you can see, there is a choke point on our continent. What are your thoughts regarding this in relationship to troop movment?

[nbarclay]

We haven't seen any barbarians so far, and I view your allusion to them as excessively misleading. If this does turn out to be a "sedantary barbarians" map, chances are they'll figure it out eventually.

I vote "yes" on "1".

"2" needs a more limited wording for the time being. If we turn out to be alone, I want a full research partnership. If not, I'd rather do trading on an ad hoc basis (preferably trying to trade the same tech to two or more civs at once where practical) with maybe a little ad hoc short-term joint planning.

With "3", we need to either make the date sooner (e.g. 2000 or 1500 BC) or put it in terms of all luxuries found. As worded, they're likely to be upset when they find out about the incense if we don't reveal it, and if we do reveal the incense, we may as well ask them to reveal everything they've found.

"4" is misleading in that it carries a fairly strong implication that we've met someone else. The wording needs to be in terms of "who, if anyone" instead of just "who." But I would definitely support it with that modificaiton.

I like your approach on "5" because it just might spur a useful information leak.

Nathan

[ManicStarSeed]

I can edit the first post to reflect these changes if people think it appropriate.

Per ,nbarclay

How is this..

2. We want to explore the possibility of becoming future technology partners.

3. How does Vox Controli feel about exchanging information regarding luxuries it has found and considers "in its territory" regardless of current game borders?


As for Item 4, I deliberatly used "connotation" in what I wrote to create a sense of "Maybe, we-have-something-they-dont" It can give them a sence of "well get something for nothing". Maybe it is too much and I can see it backfiring. I will let it stand as is for now in the poll, but can easily change it to....

4. We propose simultaneously revealing, to each other, who, if anyone, each of us have made contact with (in-game) before now. This proposal also includes an exchange of information of who, if anyone, is on-the-other-side of Gathering Storm for who, if anyone, is on-the-other-side of Vox Controli. Is Vox Controli interested in such an exchange of information


This is a work in progress. I want to get this to BetaHound by 8PM PDT.

Mss

[ManicStarSeed]

Also that barbarian thing was intended to be small talk. I can change it, I do not want it to be misleading, but even goodie huts yield barbarians......

Mss

[nbarclay]

I like the revised "2" okay.

For "3", how about, "How does Vox Controli feel about exchanging information regarding luxuries each of us has found and expects to have in our borders after we finish expanding?"

Is there some particular reason for the second sentence in "4"? It seems redundant since we only know about civs we've met. Also, my concern is that if we lead them to expect something from us and they don't get it, they'll trust us less. And if the two of us do end up needing to be partners, we need all the trust we can get.

Regarding barbarians, granted, goodie huts can contain barbarians, but the one hut we found (and probably the only one we'll ever find on this continent) didn't. So we'd be misleading them in any case.

Nathan

[zeit]

I think that #4 will cause mistrust in any other form other than trading a yes/no answer to whether we met anyone else on the continent.

As for #5, i think turning that attention towards that strategic chockepoint might backfire- maybe they won't notice it or give it enough attention. And also- by reffering to that point and mentioning troop movement- we hint them that war might be broken between us anytime soon, and we certainly don't want them to seriously prepare for war.

[zeit]

Hmm, for some reason it won't let me vote.
Add my vote to any version (so far) of item #1, #2 and #3.

[Shiber]

I like #1-4, especially #3. As we'll need to road the jungle anyway to allow our war chariots to pass through, we might as well make them believe that we're merely interested in a trade route (and even get them to help us complete the road ).
Regarding #5, as said before, we don't want to draw their attention to the fact that we've noticed the strategical importance of the choke point and that we've been pondering the possibility of a war.

[Arrian]

I like it, and basically agree with Nathan's suggested changes.

-Arrian

[alva]

We should send it, it's nearly their turn..

Send it to at least 2 of them, Eli and Dissident are online very often..
(they could be playing deaf/blind on purpose)

[Shiber]

I suggest that we change the wording of article #2 to clearly imply that we are looking for a long-term research partner. Hopefully, Vox will read the planted subtext and believe that we are not considering war.

[alva]

believe that we are not considering war.

We're not.... merely just looking at all the angles/options

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by alva

We're not.... merely just looking at all the angles/options

And if you buy that...

[Dominae]

I like proposal 4 as is. If any mistrust ensues because we do not have a contact to reveal and they do, we can offer something as compensation. Given that all our recent strategy-talk depends on whether or not we're alone with Vox, we simply must propose this one.

All other modified proposals sound fine.


Dominae

[ManicStarSeed]

I am at work for now and will be for about 7 hrs. I can not give the final write up the attention it needs untill 6PM PST. I hope this is OK. If not, someone will have to finish distilling the points form this poll and post a final document. In short, it will be unlikely that I can get it out by the wnd of their turn unless we ask them to stop the game. I think it would be best to let the game go on and let the world wonder. We will be negotiating by the beginning of their next turn.

FYI, I am in agreement with many of nbarclay's comments.

Specific replies....

Shiber - I think a general open question is necessary to start. We can broach it in more depth once we get their input on the general concept. I also like your commets about the trade route.

Alva- I am at work and will not be able to send it prior to this evening. If someone else has the time today to distill the notes in tghis thread for a final draft, that would help, but either way I can send the finalversion by 6-8PM PST tonight.


Mss