NEWS! An alliance with Lux Invictica??

[Meshelic]

They trust us about as much as we trust them. Admiral PJ sounded very enthusiastic for this alliance to work. He was so enthustiastic in it, that he awarded ME a medal courtesy of the Lux Invictican people as a "bringer of peace" to our two cultures.

Yes that's right, you may all look at my shiny new medal they awarded me.

They are cautious, as are we. The only way to make steps forward is to acknowledge this much at least: they haven't come close to mentioning an alliance with a different team, and hold us in very high regard. The feeling is mutual.

We have spoken about allying with Legoland or the Roleplayers, but the mere thought of a LuxInvictican/GatheringStorm alliance is astoundingly unsuspected.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
I mean, if we have a ROP, they could move tons of units to that city without us knowing, right?

The city would need to be close to our core, and even then I would feel better if we didn't have a ROP during those turns.

The point really isn't in "gifting" the city, it's seeing if they "gift" it back after the agree-upon number of turns expires. Also indicative of intent is what they do with it while they have it (starving our people wouldn't be very, I should think).


Dominae

[nbarclay]

Merely exchanging info on what hemisphere we're in would pose minimal risk, and could quickly let us know whether or not odds are good of being able to pursue this farther before Map Making.

[Dominae]

Hemisphere, then...quadrant, perhaps?


Dominae

[Meshelic]

Something like

"hey, we're in the western hemisphere" and then once we exchange that information we could go "hey, we're in the northernmost point of the western hemisphere/we're in the middle/south, etc"

I think the LuxInvicticans will approve of this and follow suite..

[Meshelic]

Trading our 3rd city or 4th city for a couple of turns may be a good idea I think, although it may set our plans back for that city for a short time.

They might go for this. Instead of sending a settler their way, just exchange cities for a time, and if they give it back, that's a sign of greater trust.

What would we do? I HOPE we'd give it back, I told them we were honorable, so we may as well live up to our expectations.

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Meshelic
Trading our 3rd city or 4th city for a couple of turns may be a good idea I think, although it may set our plans back for that city for a short time.

They might go for this. Instead of sending a settler their way, just exchange cities for a time, and if they give it back, that's a sign of greater trust.

What would we do? I HOPE we'd give it back, I told them we were honorable, so we may as well live up to our expectations.

I think giving up production that early is a mistake completely independent of issues of trust. We'd end up setting both nations back a little economically, and that early in the game, effects of a setback tend to be geometric in scale.

Edit: Not just production, but also population growth (hence time until it can build a settler or worker).

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Meshelic
Trading our 3rd city or 4th city for a couple of turns may be a good idea I think, although it may set our plans back for that city for a short time.

They might go for this. Instead of sending a settler their way, just exchange cities for a time, and if they give it back, that's a sign of greater trust.

What would we do? I HOPE we'd give it back, I told them we were honorable, so we may as well live up to our expectations.

I'm not sure how meaningful the gesture would be anyhow. All getting the city back means is that the other civ doesn't want to hurt us so badly (for no direct gain to themselves) that they're willing to completely ruin their reputation to do it.

[Shiber]

I'm sorry if this was already addressed, I haven't had time to read the entire thread yet.

Has anyone considered the fact that there may be a big, stupid ocean standing between us and Lux? I for one would love to exchange general map information or even minimaps and find each other, but first we need to know if that's even possible.
I have an idea though. Let's divide the minimap into 20 areas, 4 rows and 5 columns, and ask the Lux's in which area they are situated (and then reply with our location of course). If they're close enough to us then we can agree on an exact meeting place, mark it on a blank minimap and send our warriors to meet in that area and exchange contacts.

[Shiber]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
Tech trading, I would be ok with....but I would never want to trade them a "war" or "wonder" tech unless traded another one. Very, Very dangerous.

Regarding wonders, we can mislead them easily. Once we've researched a wonder tech, we can start working on that wonder but not tell them that we have the tech until some turns later, when we've opened a nice gap.
If we both have embassies then they'll know when we begin working on a wonder. In that case we can start working on a regular building, accumulate a lot of shields and once we're ready, notify them that we have the tech and switch construction to the wonder. That way it would appear as if we've only begun building the wonder.

[notyoueither]

You are devious.

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Shiber


Regarding wonders, we can mislead them easily. Once we've researched a wonder tech, we can start working on that wonder but not tell them that we have the tech until some turns later, when we've opened a nice gap.
If we both have embassies then they'll know when we begin working on a wonder. In that case we can start working on a regular building, accumulate a lot of shields and once we're ready, notify them that we have the tech and switch construction to the wonder. That way it would appear as if we've only begun building the wonder.

You don't think they'd figure out we were up to something when we finish the wonder impossibly quickly? What happens to our relations then? If we were the Ottomans and someone pulled a trick like that on us, I'd have a few thoughts about a good place to send some Sipahi.

A well-designed research partnership needs some kind of understanding regarding how we'll try to divvy up the wonders between civs. Otherwise, there are almost certain to be hard feelings. (And unless we get a truly massive tech lead, the agreements would need contingency plans for if competitors get wonders one of us was supposed to.)

Nathan

[Meshelic]

shiber's plan is very devious (as are most things he suggests) I like it to an extent, but the only thing that I disagree with is that it could alienate us from our ally and probably wreck any hopes for good relations with them. A rocky start in keeping our word is not exactly what I hoped to have in mind when it comes to public relations.

nbarclay, you have a good point with the contingency plan, just in case.

We have as yet no reason to trust them except by their word. They too are in the same rickety boat as we are.
I suggest we find out "generally" where they are without revealing map information, and then move on from there.

They would not ask us for a potential alliance and be so willing to work around our mutual cautions and not be sincere. I'm tending to believe that they geniunly seek a friend in the Gathering Storm, as we have no reason to suspect otherwise. Lets take them at face value.

Besides, if they cheat us in a deal and reveal information to someone else, then what's to stop us from doing the same to them with someone else? I'm sure we would find out about something like that and respond with swift justice.

[nbarclay]

Ultimately, it is the people on the team that are important, not just the abstract concept of what "someone" "might" do. Does anyone know the key figures on Lux Invictica well enough to have a good feal that they'll play straight with us or to have special concerns that they might be trying to set us up?

Nathan

[notyoueither]

I wouldn't put much past them, but then again we do not know how any of these people will play MP.

I 'know' a few of them. I would trust some others less.