DIPLO: map trading

[alva]

Are we going to wait to trade until it's possible in-game?? If not, I have a few suggestions

(this is based on an idea from DeepO btw, mixed with Meshelics comments on how we are looked upon)

To get some real diplomacy going,(you could call it ally hunting ) and btw,
I think the best canditate for this are LEGO, what if we present our minimap to them.
We wouldn't be asking for anything in return, we present it as a gift, a token of goodwill if you want.
I have a hunch, they will return the favor anyway.
We could even grey the minimap out, so they would only know where we started.

It's probable safe to say that our team combines the most overall game knowledge,
so if they do send us their position,
it would be of more value to us then to them.

If this works out, there are a few more teams, that we could try this with.
Knowing most team starting positions could have some beneficial influence as far as science is concerned too.

We should be carefull, not to sound patronising though.

Comments
(please don't kill me )

[Shiber]

Sounds very risky! This could backfire easily. Then again, if it does we can always claim that we sent the Legoland team a fake minimap. But that would backfire too once we start trading maps...
However, the prospect of conducting diplomacy before it is actually possible in-game is excellent!

[Arrian]

Though I'm all for fostering goodwill, I'm not sure this is the way to do it.

Sending them our starting spot could be seen as gloating... or just wierd and potentially devious.

I don't like it.

-Arrian

[DeepO]

well, that wasn't my idea completely, but I would definately keep both the initial minimap, and the starting pos before settling around as small change to make some deals. ATM, I would not give it to the other teams at all, as it surely would be considered gloating. But in a few turns, we might have something to bargain for, at which time it could become a possibility.

DeepO

[asleepathewheel]

I would wait at least until we know the lay our land. too early would be too dangerous. imho

[nbarclay]

I think it goes against the spirit of the game to trade map or location information with civs we don't even have contact with, although it would be nice if the teams would discuss such matters so everyone plays by the same rules one way or the other.

Nathan

[notyoueither]

Is the suggestion to send just our mini map, or just our main map (with mini map blacked out)?

btw, I am against EVER giving anything to do with our map to ANYONE for any reason. If we win a war, their map would be an absolute requirement for peace in my mind.

Geographical knowledge is extremely important in this game with humans. Imagine this... we have aquired maps of someone's homeland (through a successful war). Later war comes again. We would be the AI sending daggers directly at their vulnerable spots, while they flail around in the darkness looking for us.

I am currently in just such a game. I am in a very bad start location. On a small island with lots of desert and mountains. Quite a few plains as well, and some grassland (enough for 3 or 4 cities to feed off). I have another players entire home continent map (obtained from an AI). He, and the other human have no idea how vulnerable my position is/was and I packed cities in so my score was good for a long while. So they leave me alone and I am safe.

Soon I will be invulnerable on the home island until marines. Expensive, but park a foot slogger on every coastal tile et voila... Fortress Norseman (I am Vikings, hehe).

[Meshelic]

ALVA - Don't worry I won't shoot you. I had mentioned earlier the prospect of map trading and after the response, I realized it wouldn't really be a smart idea. That's not to say that there aren't other ways to give gifts and become more friendly with other nations, just that the map trading way is far too risky in my opinion.

Think of it like this: If Legoland recieves our map (whichever one it may be, blacked out or not), they might mapwhore elsewhere, by going to Lux Invictica and saying "well the GS think we're good guys and gave us their map. So here you go, take it and kill them."
And we wouldn't have a clue where the Lux Invictans are coming from.....that would be really bad.

I'd say it's better to be perceived as a greater threat by our talent than to give away our location. Who knows, by then possibly every team may have an idea where we are and can thus send their troops our way. (not good). It is much better for them to fear us in the dark.

There are other better ways to gain friendship. Once we know who our neighbors are, then that is when we should decide who our friends should be.

[alva]

Got any better ideas!!!

ps: just a quick thought:
Why do you post here at 'Poly', and not at, let's say 'CfC'...Probably because you came here first.
After that, you saw no need to change.
Why am I saying this, if we can build a trust relation with any team first, it will have more value, then beeing the last one to knock on their doors
(just an introduction won't do btw )

So, we won't trade our map, what else have we got....
your turn

[Arrian]

I post at 'poly because I consider the strategy forum content to be of a higher quality most of the time. I found (lurked at) CfC first. The lion's share of credit (such as it is) for getting me to de-lurk goes to Vel.

On-topic, your point is a good one, that cosying up to a team early may pay off in the long run (kinda like those early temples some of us like).

-Arrian

[Theseus]

I've been very busy at work, thus catching up in the evening... man, I love the concept-play!

This thread TOTALLY opened my mind to 'human diplomacy.'

* We organize against GoW NOW!

* We trade minimaps and or start-location screenshots with everyone who will, NOW!

Just ideas... any others?

[Meshelic]

Perhaps mini-maps only. I still stand behind holding our world maps back.

But I suppose everything would have it's price. I would just hope our profit is worth the potential backlash's.

I agree with Theseus however, we must mobilize ourselves against the Glory of War. They are the outright warmongers, and the ones who pose the greatest threat as such. Whether their tactics can hold up in battle is a question that will probably be answered sooner than we think. I do recommend we take a hard stance against the Glory of War.

By taking a hard stance on the Glory of War, and yet still maintain an honorable position in the team community, (paint ourselves as the good guys opposing the evil hoards), I believe we can win out in this area.

[notyoueither]

I still say no to anything to do with maps. A minimap has information on it. Lots of it.

I also think we should waity and see who is where before we go jumping to make enemies of anyone. We may be nowhere near GoW. In that case, why antagonise them?

BTW, we could easily be seen the bully in any fight with GoW too. They are not stupid re PR. Their start screen-shot thread was genius.

[nbarclay]

Imagine what GoW could do if they started right next to us and got a hold of our minimap at this stage. Half our safety during the initial expansion phase depends on other civs' not knowing where we are to send an all-out attack our way.

[zeit]

I have to disagree with you Mesh. Taking a hard stance against GoW so early won't serve any good, and might be interpreted as sort of ploy, and cause mistrust by other teams.

As the GoW ambassador, i must state that UnOothodox is treating me respectfully, and so far has given me one important piece of information regarding their mercenary nature: As they will be a fuedal team, any power holders may accept any contract, meaning they might even fight against two opponents who war with eachother(!), and only if this will seem problematic enough, the high kind (GF) will intervene, which probably means the contract won't be accepted or even broken.

On the payment issue- they will be willing to accept any sort of it- Techs, Cities, gold, workers, and even "artillery"- which means the other team will allow GoW to capture X amount of it.

I still believe we can make use of them, before we march into their cities...