Help needed catching MZ in chat

[Cort Haus]

MZ has not been in the #gow_cofa room the last few times I tried , but I got a PM from him saying :

We really need to chat. I'm having jitters at thinking we'll be facing swarms of infantry holed up in cities.

I have band committments the next few nights so will not have much time to try again soon. If anyone can help here, especially if in a similar time-zone it could be important.

[DeepO]

most likely, I can't be present. Whoever can, please the following guideline:

Should / Could be mentioned in chat
- infs aren't that big a problem as long as the diversion is right. plans so far are to at least threaten 3 cities (and if I had it my way 4 or 5) right until the latest turn. If GoW is doing the same on their side and we attack simultanously, they have to spread their defenses over at least 6-7 cities
- if a city is defended by 10 infs, we expect some 40 marines to be necessary to be reasonably sure to take a city. If we can't reach that, we'll need to land on mountains / hills. This is before bombardment from either side
- the longer we wait, the bigger the risk. turn 240 should remain our goal
- bombardment can become key, for which GoW is much better placed then we are, given that their bombers can reach Legolang from their cities
- the best chance we've got is to destroy all of Lego's picket line in one turn, on both sides. They then need to scout where we are. Scouting can be done by ship (not efficient, and scouting ships will be destroyed), or by fighter. Every fighter scouting, is one less on air superiority, giving our bombers free shots at target cities.
- We already have to assume Lego knows they will get invaded.
- Given that, we are free to hamper them economically as much as possible. Denying them all tech and lux is paramount. If ND, GoW and GS don't trade them any lux (not even the one benefitting us now), they will need to spend 20-30% of their budget on happiness. In case they've got metropels, this amount only increases. No happiness will also hamper them drafting defenders, as even conscript infs will be a pain to deal with
- goals: 1. hamper Lego. 2. get a beachhead. 3. (maybe) destroy Lego, and Vox
- tech plans: It would be best if we do the next tech as well. However, it will cost, and given the calculation CH made earlier, we would expect something in the order of 4-6K in gold for Elo, AT, MT (given that we trade amph and flight for the other techs, and they get SM for free). To be paid before invasion, as we need the money to upgrade. Later is not possible, we're falling behind, and in case the window of opportunity closes, we will not have the opportunity to outclass Lego in troop strength.
- if Lego division comes as a topic, it will most likely be a conqueror takes the ground he conquered thing, with swaps later on.
- ND: we need gold from them, as they won't give anything else.

should not be mentioned in chat
- we want a NAP (no we don't)
- we are going to attack Bob after we've finished with Lego
- we are going to race ahead in tech, even after invading Lego, and use MA to invade another party (most likely GoW, if they are caught off guard)

Just some ideas... maybe best to add to this list?

DeepO

[Krill]

- goals: 1. hamper Lego. 2. get a beachhead. 3. (maybe) destroy Lego, and Vox

I think that destroying Vox was a prefered course of action.

And on a slightly different topic can we rename the first tank "Grog on Wheels"?

- tech plans: It would be best if we do the next tech as well. However, it will cost, and given the calculation CH made earlier, we would expect something in the order of 4-6K in gold for Elo, AT, MT (given that we trade amph and flight for the other techs, and they get SM for free). To be paid before invasion, as we need the money to upgrade. Later is not possible, we're falling behind, and in case the window of opportunity closes, we will not have the opportunity to outclass Lego in troop strength.

While I like this, GoW will be very angry: how are they going to rush units? It would take c. 4-5 turns (very rough guess) @ 100% tax to get this amount of gold.

[DeepO]

GoW is making over 400 gpt. 4000 means 10 turns, which leaves over 4000 for their own upgrades. They have Leo's, and are already building infs, instead of rifles... so they don't need the cash.

We simply can't give away our main advantage for free, already we're very generous by giving it to them at ~35% of the beaker cost (Can't find the precise numbers that CH posted)

DeepO

[DeepO]

Also, don't underestimate the role of ND in this: We're now receiving a nice bonus from ND on top of our research, but GoW has been getting that bonus for a while now. My guess is that they have a treasury of over 4000 gold already (see at our own treasury, and we're researching instead of having 100% tax)

DeepO

[Krill]

GoW is making over 400 gpt. 4000 means 10 turns, which leaves over 4000 for their own upgrades. They have Leo's, and are already building infs, instead of rifles... so they don't need the cash.

I was thinking more along the lines of possible short rushes.

We simply can't give away our main advantage for free,

hey, I'm happy asking for 4000 up front and another 4000 in installments (during the war, ie 200 per turn for the next 20 turns), which would help to dent their economy without destroying their armed forces (thats Legos job...)

Also, don't underestimate the role of ND in this: We're now receiving a nice bonus from ND on top of our research, but GoW has been getting that bonus for a while now. My guess is that they have a treasury of over 4000 gold already (see at our own treasury, and we're researching instead of having 100% tax)

Which is the same as selling techs to the AI...

Nah, they are smart enough to try and backstabbed GoW, which is what I would consider doing in their position, and which we need to beware of, if Lego try to buy their allegance.

[Arrian]

And on a slightly different topic can we rename the first tank "Grog on Wheels"?

Of course, understand that Tank then must die for the war to be successful. :nods sagely:

-Arrian

[DeepO]

short rushes are possible, but we are not going to pay for GoW's rushes, are we

as to installments: I wouldn't mind GoW paying us in installments, e.g. from turn 218, 200 gpt (20 turns). Or 250 gpt, as it is effectively a loan. As long as receive all the money before we have to embark our forces, it's okay.

It's a negotiation point we can use to GoW: 'we need it for our invasion forces', while in reality, we need it for our defense / backstab forces. How much does it cost to upgrade a pike to inf, 200 gold? 220 for a spear to inf? we've got enough obsolete defenders, but they are going to be costly to upgrade!

DeepO

[Krill]

I've been reading the old threads from the Voxian war and I'm just starting BOB, including the build up. I hope I have learnt from them.


And I hope you like the link.

[DeepO]

Krill, if you're reading them chronologically, remember there is a gap on every new page, where some threads aren't shown. Putting more threads per page solves it partly, otherwise you're going to miss stuff.

I can imagine it's a long read

DeepO

[DeepO]

Oh, BTW, if you need the screenshots for those threads, I've got a folder with all screenies that were once distributed. Can't just send it to you, though, it is way too large (92MB)

DeepO

[Krill]

DeepO, I'm fine withoutthe screenshots, but thank you for offering. I may ask for certain shots (eg for the REX, and the Bobian war, but in a couple of months, and we are more sure of how the game will pan out).


OT: did we get a chat going? I was there until 22:30 (23:30 BST, but I have just finished my last exam of the week, so I needed the sleep)

[DeepO]

no chat, I think. This has always been our problem, and it hasn't changed... in case it's not possible to arrange something with MZ, we should send him a long PM. I can imagine he's getting a but scared about why it takes so long for us to respond.

Oh, the next couple of days, I will be very sporadically available, I've got a few visitors and parties planned. No chat for me, but I should be able to squeeze in the playing of the turn .

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by DeepO
can imagine he's getting a but scared about why it takes so long for us to respond.
DeepO

If anyone is able to take on the role of Ambassador to GoW, could they please do so? Regrettably, I'm just not available on the full time basis that is required.

[Cort Haus]

Quick PM to MZ. I might have time this evening to put something longer together, or even catch him in chat (he often meets ND on thursdays).