Turn 199: 840 AD

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Trip
Transporting by air has it's own issues.

of course, but so does chaining... exactly my point.

Look at it this way. A successful chain + a number of combat Settlers (quite a lot, I admit) can bring any civ to its knees in a single turn. A few Marines, a few Cavalry, a few Settlers and a lot of Transports can tear the heart out of a civ like nobody's business.

Well... is there any difference in chaining or not? Without a chain, you can tear apart any civ with enough units and combat settlers. Again, this is a problem of RRs and how combat works, and it doesn't matter one bit how long those units have been sailing the seas... it's only more apparent as in our preliminary plans, we are not going to rip apart Lego in one turn, if we would we don't even need chaining. It's because we believe the war will take a lot longer that we need chaining for easy reinforcements, not for shock tactics. Those are just a matter of having enough tanks, and settlers.

But I'll await the public thread. No need to argue too much here

DeepO

[WarriorPoet]

My two cents:

Would it be better to have a mixed force of artillery, infantry and tanks?

Land a sizeable force in a defensable position near a crucial coastal city containing infantry and artillery. Absorb his military, then land the tanks?

Fight like a defensive war, only in reverse, where you are forcing him to have the higher casualties and slowly progress your troops and strangle him city by city.

I may be wrong, but in many of those cities where you can only build one tank per 3 turns, you could also build infantry or artillery in one turn right?

[Krill]

No, an In or art every two turns, but your idea is right. The problem is that we need every tank we can get, no matter how long the build time is.

[DeepO]

WP, check out this thread:

http://apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111217

very hypothetical for the moment, but seeing nobody has come with any other idea, I guess this is more or less the plan for the moment.

I'm going to start to check what we can build in our cities now, but this takes a while to do it right.

DeepO

[vmxa1]

BTW DeepO, I have nothing against chaining, I was only saying that it has been nixed by Trip.

I guess that it may not be nixed, so I am fine by it either way. I don't see it as a problem, because can do it.

[DeepO]

we'll see if chaining is in or out. I'm going to try to keep it in, but it doesn't matter that much to us... our first bunch of troops don't use chaining as we'll need too many for reinforcements, and it's there that it counts. It would only be a pain in case someone attacks us: we'd need more defenders in case we can't chain.

So, allow me to argue a bit in public, but in case chaining is out, no problem whatsoever

F1 however is something else... has anybody heared of that being called an exploit? I don't get it, basically, and am a bit bummed because we've been using it since turn 1. I was proud to end the ToE without losing a single shield, and this is being clouded by other people apparently seeing it as cheating

DeepO

[asleepathewheel]

I don't know DeepO

To me its just a finer control of the mechanics, something that better players do for finer control of micromanagement. I don't know why its cheating or whatnot, especially when the wonder implications are available to all.

[Arrian]

I could see some people thinking F1 was an exploit. I wouldn't agree with them, but that's me. The best thing would have been to have discussed all this stuff a year ago. But we didn't.

So GS has operated for a long time now with the implicit understanding that in the absense of a rule set or general agreement amongst the teams on a particular tactic/exploit, that we should use the game mechanics to our advantage as best we could, because there was nothing preventing the others from doing those things. F1 is a perfect example of that.

If it's deemed an exploit, fine, we won't use it anymore, but I don't wanna hear any *****ing and moaning about its past use.

-Arrian

[vmxa1]

What method exist to know if others are using it or not? If none, then it has to be in. Otherwise we will all be exposed to being victumized by it being used.

[WarriorPoet]

F1 exploit???

[DeepO]

In some instances you can check, or at least have circumstantial evidence that others have used it before. AFAIK, no wonders completed the moment they were discovered (ToE was the first), but that could be a sign. We haven't spotted any new units the moment they were discovered, which doesn't mean they didn't exist.
(BTW: mass-upgrading units when discovering a new unit is an exploit, as it upgrades units with no movement points left, and gives them full movement the same turn. We didn't do this at one time, when we could have).

buildings coming on-line: Lego could have completed factories the moment they discovered Inuds, but we didn't spot it. unis with education the same...

There are methods to check for this, however we never checked as it was so obvious everybody used it. Or could use it.

Oh, where we did gain from it? First thing I remember was ending our granary the moment we discovered pottery. We did hack into the queue a couple of times during the Voxian war, to rush or short-rush walls and units (as we didn't have any money at the end of turns). Also, we changed quite a few builds during building, to spot where the immortals were landing... If Vox didn't played their first turns so badly, we would have needed this to win. Now, it was one of the reasons why we didn't lose a single city in that war.

After that, we did change a couple of builds with F1, but I don't think we hacked into the build queue again (I'm not sure). It didn't give us much advantage anyway, I can't remember we had such precisley timed prebuilds, but I can be wrong.

DeepO

[vmxa1]

I thought the mass upgrade bug was corrected? You could no longer upgrade units without movement via that method?

[vmxa1]

I thought the mass upgrade bug was corrected? You could no longer upgrade units without movement via that method?

[DeepO]

Ah? didn't know about that... was it already in PtW 1.21f?

DeepO

[WarriorPoet]

Yes, this was fixed.

You can upgrade units with no movement via the shift+U, but they still loose their movement for that turn.