Does the road to Legopolis go through Neu Theben?

[Cort Haus]

Although on one hand a war against ND just gives Lego another chance to build their way to glory, with ND effectively allied to Lego as things stand, an attack with GoW on Lego would just get ND cutting GoW up, unless GoW compromised their attack.

MZ understands this, and I'll wager UnO and Aggie do too, but the wider GoW team has affection still for their old ally.

However, the chat with MZ got the message over - either ND join up or they have to get 'pre-empted'. It is GoW who are best placed to talk ND into GAUL. Lego will be offering ND 72 virgins a month to secure their alliance - all those luxuries, a tech partner, and a military foil against GS and their allies - even a Uranium guarantee perhaps. It makes me puke how ND are doing this, but there's no point in moaning too much, we have to deal with it. Controlling ND's luxuries might be the only way to keep them out of Lego's hands, and dying in the attempt to do that might be better then letting Lego win by default.

Best thing is for GoW to talk ND into GAUL. Failing that we see if GoW want to hit Lego or ND, and meanwhile consider ourselves whether the best assault on Lego would be to disable their ally first.

[Cort Haus]

PM sent to Aggie (See Log) on this subject.

[Jon Shafer]

Pillage and burn!

This SS/UN/culture victory stuff bores me...

[asleepathewheel]

I think we have to move on ND first, before marines come about. before possibly even rubber comes round. Its going to have to be a suprise assault from GoW's terrain, as undoubtedly Nd has spotters on their unoccupied territory, and a rail system, if in place, will shred our landers. The key would be to eviscerate ND before lego would have a chance to land. We know that they have a large army, largest in the game now. do they have the transport capacity necessary? Transport capacity + ability to move through the whole of ND to either hit us or GoW? Its got to be a knife in the dark. we might have to land units up north in GoW land ourselves. Hmm. I will be home tomorrow and will contemplate actions on my drive home ~5.5 glorious hours of alone driving

[DeepO]

I'm not sure... I would prefer that it would be the other way around. That the road to ND goes through Legopolis. If we hurry, ND will not have built up its infrastructure yet, and thus if they join Lego in their defense, they do not pose a great threat. The other way around, if we attack ND and Lego comes to their rescue, we get the full power of Lego, and we do not choose the battlefield anymore. There is no way of telling if they will go to Bob or to Stormia.

If ND helps Lego, they only have one possible target: GoW's home turf. And is that so bad for us?

Something else to consider: let's say we race towards tanks. Lego, as main tech competitor, can be some 15 turns behind us... more then enough to take on Lego first, and don't risk tanks facing us. ND does not have the research power to do Lego's job for them, they do not have the culture, hence not the libs and unis they need. So after Lego, we still can take on a tankless ND.

OTOH, if we go for ND first, Lego will have time to catch up, and gets to Marines before the ND war is over... hence Stormia is not safe anymore.

No, for us, there is only one way: First of all Lego, later ND. But, we have to think on our possible allies here, as GoW would obviously better have ND, and only later Lego to stay safe.

DeepO

[Arrian]

Ugh. The situation is crap. But Cort is right that we must play the hand we're dealt.

The main strike has to be from GoW. Our contribution should be coastal landings that can take out what, 2 or 3 of ND's luxury sources? That ought to hurt them (and by extension, Lego).

I guess we're gonna have to start building some units, eh?

-Arrian

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Arrian
I guess we're gonna have to start building some units, eh?

Now that is one certainty we have... but we will get there without any doubt. Currently, factories are lined up, after that only a few cities deserve hospitals and extra unis, the rest is free to build units.

DeepO

[vmxa1]

What DeepO said about how much better it would be for Lego if we hit ND first, is so true. They will not be strained, regardless of the out come. If things look bad enogh for ND, the may just sit by, nothing ND could do about.

Lego can't be hurt no matter who dos what to whom. If the three of us slice each other up, Lego zooms by everyone. If ND is doing ok, then Lego can come in and hurt GoW and us.

I doubt we can do ND fast enough to move on to Lego before they get tanks.

I do feel we will be compelled to either hit someone or lose. It may have to be ND, but if we can do Lego instead we are better off.

[Octavian X]

As I see it, it'll be difficult to persuade ND to leave their powerful Blockheaded allies. No matter how you look at it, an alliance with Lego is a great one. Strong tech, strong production, and a good defensible position are all key to that.

Neu Theben should perhaps be seen, then, as a small conclave in the middle of Legopolis - as the Vatican City is to Rome. If Lego falls, ND is screwed. If ND falls, Lego is still in good shape. Any attempt to prosecute a successful war would almost have to be fought on a Lego and ND front, as the moment we commit troops to one nation, the other will see an opening.

[DeepO]

It's not certain yet that ND will join Lego in case we declare war on Lego, but I think it is for certain that once we attack ND, Lego will intervene. ND currently doesn't have the forces for invasions or so, as they are fully building their cities. Lego has their cities in place.

And again, aren't we looking too much from GoW's PoV here? ND simply can't attack us before they get marines (which, if we play it well, means never). If we go after Lego, we will have time to slash them, and still have an outdated sea wall blocking any landings on our Western side. Lego is different, in that it has the tech-power to research marines, and attack us from the East while we're busy with ND.

The only ones in danger are GoW. If they are willing to risk it, why not? If that means they need to keep 2/3 of their army at home for defense against ND, and we can take 2/3 to Lego, that will only improve our chances. If we have superior tech, we don't need an ally for the difference in numbers so hard, we need them to split Lego's effort in defending its country, as a diversion, and as protection that GoW won't backstab us while we're off fighting Lego.

The more I think about this, the more convinced I become that we'll have to go after Lego first, and soon. The deadline we have to meet is that ND can't get to marines before we attack them, or retreat from Lego if things go bad.

DeepO

[vmxa1]

I agree, we would have to let GoW hold back quite a bit to prevent ND from jumping them. It could be that ND will even see the light and join. That would be the end for Lego.

I agree to an extent that the ties to Lego is good for ND, but it forces them to lose the game. I guess that is not a concern for them. If they have some lame idea that Lego can help them oust GoW or us, is nuts. They could do that, but it won't do any good for ND.

[Cort Haus]

OK, on the basis of this discussion we can say to GoW that the balance of feeling in GS is that Lego remain the priority.

If I can catch MZ later today, I'll see if he's got anywhere with ND.

[DeepO]

Just as a hypothetical plan again: Assuming we have tanks (2 movers), and ND is protected by infs, the best way to invade ND would be by either capturing, or better by receiving the city Canton from GoW. From there, we have a direct path to Mavda, Triplais, Neu-Te-Ben, Anagramaskus, Marlowa, Fordreizak, Zerigossa, Forlowenmut, Sirtiago, Bonigo.

All those cities can fall by our hands in 1 turn, and in case GoW cooperates and takes Stonedina, nearly all of them are defendable against ND's rebound as well. We could drive them to former RP lands, but it would require a vast operation, and the assurance that we have loads of tanks opposing their defenders.

The best defended positions are likely to be Anagramaskus and Stonedina, which we could leave to GoW. Mavda is almost certainly well defended as well, but I doubt their defending their truely core cities that well. Most of the rest of their troops is likely to be in the South, watching out for us. And if we do it well, taking with us enough workers (or using their RRs), they can't reach us in the first turn...

And still, I think Lego should fall first

DeepO

[Tall Stranger]

I agree that Lego needs to get trimmed first, but we need to also start thinking about the post-war situation. (Yes, I realize the irony of thinking through something that is looking increasingly less likely!) Some questions for us to think about:

1. Assume we do significant damage to the Lego homeland (6-9 cities razed, pillaging, etc.) and have some limited territorial presence in Legoland. Is that going to put us in a position to win? In the past, we came to the conclusion that we needed more (productive) land to make a run at winning this game. Since the land we take from Lego will not suffice (corruption's going to be terrible there), do we still need Bobian land? (Maybe RP could move over there; they seem to be good at relocating!! )

2. What will the reduction of Lego's power do to the balance of power on Bob? I would expect, following Lego's reduction, that GoW would turn its eyes either at ND or us (with ND being an objectively better choice). We need to consider NOW how the decisions we make WRT the Lego war affect how we position ourselves in a later ND-GoW war.

Again, just a couple of thoughts and questions. Sadly, I'm better at that than in providing solutions.

[DeepO]

Will there be a post war? I mean, how much longer is this game going to continue? Assume an alliance can damage, or better yet, destroy Lego (which is possible, BTW, with a good plan). Everybody will be looking to the others... the next war will probably follow immediately. If we can get GoW to play with us, ND follows... Vox can be done as an afterthought, RP is already gone, I don't there will be any time to develop any land we gain: we simply need to build forces, and attack everything in sight.

This game has been going on for one and a half year now, I don't see us doing another year. Spaceship would be way too boring to hold interest of the teams.

DeepO