How to get Medicine

[DeepO]

Okay, finally something is happening. Great!

Not enough time to answer in detail, will do so when I get home in 3h. But these are my ideas:

We can't give our 2 free techs to them. They split the effort, while we do all the work. Can't be done.

However, we can give them one tech for free: electricity.

Further, we are of course interested in selling our techs, but would prefer tech trading, to get to tanks and marines asap. We will already have the costliest techs.

Sorry, not enough time to read through all of your previous post, but will get back to it later. Got to run...

DeepO

[Arrian]

Sounds like you and I basically agree: gifting 1 tech can be done, and some uneven trades are also ok, but no more than that.

-Arrian

[asleepathewheel]

kick ass!

I just hope us ramping the tech race doesn't end our game faster, if you know what I mean....

[DeepO]

Arrian, you can find a table with the industrial tech costs for this game in the topped Smith's thread... thanks to Cort.

Further, it looks like you have the same idea as I have, which is great. I have to open the save, but we even can end Elec next turn, if RP has given us the 40 gold (we'll need 30 or so). But we'll be broke then, so either get SM in 5 turns, or wait one turn for hording cash and get it in 4.

The main difference between our ideas is that I would give GoW one free tech (electricity), and for good order ND as well. The others, we sell. They don't have to whine that's unfair, they deliver us 2400 beakers with 2 teams, while we give them 2880+3360. That's still a ratio of 1:5.2 . Not fair in any way, which should be enough (less then this might not work). But, of course, we will afterwards gain 2 techs for 600 shields.

Also, they use the point that Hoover is worth a lot to us, which is not really correct. Hoover is not that great for us, it would do them, or Lego a lot more good. We spend 800 shields on it, which could also be 5(?) power plants. We will only gain 2 or 3 powerplants as the other cities won't have factories for a long time, and thus don't benefit from Hoover.

For any other team, the effect would be a lot bigger, as they have more productive cities. Not for us. So them helping us to Hoover is a moot point, the thing that is really going on is that they deny Hoover to Lego, who would otherwise surely get it. Which is far more dangerous...

One thing I kind of read in you message that I didn't rellay like is that you told them we don't need their help for getting SM in 4 turns. Well, that is true, but it is very close (we will burn 230 gold), and it doesn't give them any incentive to pay us for our techs. If they would be willing to fork over 1000 gold, I'm sure the negotiations would become a lot more pleasant.

I'd like to be in that chat with them, and I would love to have some kind of plan what they are going to get from us. For the moment, we run forward, and assume Med is coming in 3 turns, perfectly in time for us (if they sponsor our research, we could use it one turn faster)

The main point I like is that it sounds like we have found an ally against Lego in GoW, although I'm not sure on the intentions of ND.

To be continued, now I'll play the turn. I'm in time need tonight... first the turn out the door, then go back to give some more opinions on this.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Oh, just noticed: we will need 3 turns for Elec, after this one (so 192). I hope that is what GoW meant. We can speed it up by one turn, but will need ~600 gold to be able to do it. 200 of that by the start of next turn. And it wouldn't give ToE sooner, nor Hoover. (prebuilds are precisely timed)

DeepO

[Arrian]

The main difference between our ideas is that I would give GoW one free tech (electricity), and for good order ND as well. The others, we sell. They don't have to whine that's unfair, they deliver us 2400 beakers with 2 teams, while we give them 2880+3360. That's still a ratio of 1:5.2 . Not fair in any way, which should be enough (less then this might not work). But, of course, we will afterwards gain 2 techs for 600 shields.

Given Vox's latest communication, I'm all for using Electricity as the tech we "gift" away. Electricity to ND & GoW in exchange for "helping" us get ToE, fine. Electricity to Vox in exchange for Nationalism and Demo. If we have to throw in a luxury, fine.

Then we get back to roughly even deals.

Oh, just noticed: we will need 3 turns for Elec, after this one (so 192).

Well, they say 2 turns until the get Med... so it could be T191, but it could be T192... dunno. Either way, it's good for us. As long as it's not T193.

Regarding timing... you say 5 turns for SM. That means T197 we discover it. Is that the expected completion date for ToE? If so, great, no need to speed research. If, however, we can finish ToE on T196, then perhaps we should try to work out a deal for cash from GoW/ND for another one of our techs - like Atomic Theory - and get some of the money up-front.

Of course, I could just go check the Smith's thread for that info, huh?

/me goes off to check out the Smith's thread and refresh his memory.

[Arrian]

From the Smith's thread, it looks like we were shooting for T196 to complete ToE. If we don't discover electricity until T192, and cannot do SM in 4 turns, we're running late on research, and therefore need cash.

Am I missing something?

-Arrian

[DeepO]

Sorry, no time to think it through, got to run (again). The info you need should be in the turn thread.

I apologise for not being able to calculate it for you

DeepO

[Arrian]

No problem, I've got it now.

I should apologize. I have trouble remembering the specifics, because I'm also trying to remember all the stuff for Cake or Death in ptwdgII too - which reminds me, I need to play the turn tonight.

Then I post before re-reading the stuff in the Smith thread or the last turn thread, and I get stuff wrong.

Blah.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

I never did get a response from MZ about the chat, so there were no negotiations last night. I'm busy today (working, believe it or not), so I don't really have time to compose a PM presenting our trade offer.

Can someone else fill in?

-Arrian

[Krill]

When will the chat be? it might help to know that piece of information

[DeepO]

nobody knows, Krill.

As to Medicine: we currently are certain to get ToE, even if we don't get Med from GoW, with two exceptions:
- GoW doesn't sell it to Lego instead of to us (or ND, but that's unlikely)
- or, and this has not been mentioned yet, Lego doesn't steal the tech from us once they discover Steam. They will probably have saved quite a bit of cash already, enough to steal tech if they so desire.

Please, don't anyone mention this last thing to any other team, we should not give them any ideas. Rumours can go fast in this game, and Lego stealing tech to catch up would be disastrous.

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

GoW have Medicine and can send it to us- see GoW thread.

[vmxa1]

Some good news there.

[vmxa1]

Not sure what thread this should be in, but the thoughts GoW has on Lego are the ones we have been tossing around for some time.

I would dismiss nukes as they are likely to have them before us and it would not help us win.

That leaves plan A and the status of ND.