Bring Dom up to speed?

[Dominae]

If someone has the time, I would really appreciate a short summary of what's happened since we left Bob (maybe including a few turns leading up to that).

I would also like to take a look at the savegame.

I want to increase my participation here, although I'm not sure how long this will last due to RL constraints. Things could potentially get very interesting in this game. Even better (for my tastes) is that there's a lot less bickering inside and between teams now.


Dominae

[Cort Haus]

The end of the Bobian War was characterised by (1) Lego stepping out of the shadows against us when we landed near Yellowknife, (2) The failed attempt to get GoW to backstab ND, (3) The lack of Saltpeter, (4) the final defence and defeat at Pamplona.

At that point we decided to go home, deploy the units on the coast as a sea-wall until marines, and concentrate on commercial and scientific output. The big core cities built Uni's, and elsewhere Aquas were the priority, followed by worker-boosting of pop, then libraries. We went for both Science wonders, with the goal of winning the race for ToE.

We traded for Metallurgy and Chemistry from GoW, but researched Banking, Astro, Physics, Magnetism and ToG all at four-turn to propel ourselves into the IA about 6 turns ahead of Lego, who went via Economics and Navigation, and are now in GA after building Magellan (and Smiths). If Newton completes for GS as expected when we recieve the save, we'll be hauling 500bpt at break-even 70%.

There has been no Lego desk at the GS foreign ministry since before the end of the war, of which we are very proud, and apart from the long-standing 1:1 lux deal have had no dealings with them as a matter of firm policy. Our promiscuous Bobian neighbours, OTOH, continue to trade tech and in ND's case supply masses of luxuries too - despite their paying of lip-service to the doctrine of GAUL (Grand Alliance to Undermine Lego).

With Lego's free tech from Vox, we need GoW to research Medicine for us - as part of a Steam/Electricity for Medicine/Indust deal with GoW. Our problem is to get GoW to research Medicine in time for us to beat Lego to the ToE. We fear that GoW want to put a spanner in our ToE plans, perhaps hoping to get it themselves, but handing it only to Lego.

[Cort Haus]

680AD Savegame

[vulture]

Other random titbits:

RP now live in Vox's old territory - we've got Elipolis and everything south of it. We are currently maintaining most of the sea wall in their territory too, while they are focusing on building markets and banks as a first priority (as we understand it).

There was a plan discussed between us, GoW and ND to launch an attack on Lego in the gap between cavalry and riflemen / railroads. We had no intention of removing anything from our seawall, and weren't going to build any new units to help out, but could have sent 15 or so units to be a distraction (although we'd disbanded most of our galleys). GoW tell us that ND backed out of this plan, and wanted to concentrate on REXxing over RPs ex-lands (which GoW have notably little of).

Now the plan is GAUL - the Grand Alliance to Undermine Lego by trading between GS, GoW and ND, and keeping Lego out of it. We give techs to RP when they are devalued, and Vox has some kind of arrangement with Lego.

We are focused on developing our economy, after two long wars. Banks and unis are high priorites. We've just grabben two science wonders, and have been following a 40-turn plan to get to ToE first to grab Hoovers - primarily for the benefit of denying it to Lego, but also, since we are the smallest of the contenders, to the most out of our limited land. Military has taken a back-seat; with the sea wall intact, we can't be touched until marines, but we've been thinking about our defences once marines turn up as well.

Both ND and GoW seem quite happy to keep trading with Lego, despite the agreement that we wouldn't. I suspect they are distracted by the fact that we have a several turn tech lead and complete security, and regard us as more powerful than we are - and so still think they need to balance us vs Lego, rather than seeing Lego as the big bad, and us as a nation that has pretty much reached its peak and is in danger of trailing from here on. Copernicus' and Newton's aren't going to help us here, and nor is GoW's knowing that we expect to get ToE (and therefore Hoover, in most minds) first. We need to do some PR here in my opinion (although I have to say that since we were lagging several techs behind during the war, the way we've worked that into a tech lead now means that they maybe do have some genuine concerns about our capabilities still).

The next big issue is coal: who has it and who doesn't. Sadly we're not in a position to go and grab some deposits in the event that we have no coal, although we are looking at the possibility of deals with GoW to get 20 turns of coal in the event they have spare and we have none. Maybe also with ND.

[Arrian]

Good summaries, guys.

Good to see you getting interested again, Dom!

I've spent a fair amount of time (with many others) trying to work out a way to nab ToE and Hoover. We *think* we've got a legit shot at it.

Copernicus completed in Hurricane last turn. Newton is due in Tempest this turn. Arashi is the ToE prebuild. IIRC, EotS is the Hoover prebuild (?).

Our navy is largely gone, which may or may not have been a mistake (I supported, or was it proposed, the disbanding of many galley to assist civilian builds like libraries immediately following the war). We have upgraded some of what's left to galleons, however.

Our economy is our hope for now. IF we get ToE, IF we get Hoover, IF we have coal and rubber (or can somehow get access to them), we MIGHT be able to make another run at this thing.

-Arrian

[Dominae]

Thanks all.

Our position is not a bad one to be in, actually. I think other teams now realise that GS is not a top contender due to land area, so do not have major plans to disrupt us.

The only thing they might want to keep away from us is the Theory of Evolution. But if we make it clear that helping us to get the ToE will make them very rich in turn, they'll have a tough refusing the opportunity. We need to subtly project the "we can help you win" message. This involves being slightly generous with our ToE (and future) fortunes.

Apologies if this has all be considered already.


Dominae

[asleepathewheel]

Good to see you around these parts, Dominae

[Arrian]

The only thing they might want to keep away from us is the Theory of Evolution. But if we make it clear that helping us to get the ToE will make them very rich in turn, they'll have a tough refusing the opportunity. We need to subtly project the "we can help you win" message. This involves being slightly generous with our ToE (and future) fortunes.

I assume by "they" you mean ND and/or GoW. Lego is the only team capable of making a run on ToE besides us. We're ahead in tech, and have research power ND/GoW cannot match.

Hmm, but if GoW & ND continue to trade with Lego, risking Lego getting ToE, they might be able, with a well-timed prebuild, to have a shot at it. That hadn't occurred to me.

What I don't understand is why all that lipservice was payed to GAUL, and then both of them promptly ignored it? Do they really not see Lego as the primary threat at this point? Are they STILL labouring under the illusion that it's us?!

Sorry, I'm rambling now. I guess we can offer somewhat uneven trades to GoW (Steam for Medicine is in their favor, for instance, as would be Electricity for Industrialization) if they agree to NDAs (for whatever THAT's worth) and promise to do the research in a certain timeframe (which we should probably toy with a bit so attempts by them to screw us go astray - say we need them to do medicine within 10 turns, we say we need it in 8 or something like that. They drag their feet, delaying, as I expect they will, and we probably get it 'round about when we actually need it.).

-Arrian

[Dominae]

Even though GoW and ND may not have a shot directly at the ToE, they're definitely players in the race; whichever alliance cooperates most freely will undoubtedly get to Scientific Method first.

That's why we need GoW and ND to think in terms of being on the right side of the ToE race. This is very much like playing against the AI (please do not let that statement slip out of this forum), because the benefits of supporting your neighbors far outweigh the benefits of potentially leaving them in the dust. Even if we give Atomic Theory away for free, we're ahead of the game.


Dominae

[Dominae]

By the way, what's our password for the save?

[asleepathewheel]

OneToRule

[vmxa1]

I agree we can afford to be a bit generous. I think we hurt our chances by exacting max value in last trade and trying to get more for Physics.

GoW/ND immediately made deals with Lego after that. I don't know if they did that out of genuine concern that we are getting too strong or just to teach us a lession.

[Dominae]

Gracias.

[Arrian]

Ok, so we take a more generous trade approach. That makes perfect sense.

-Arrian

[asleepathewheel]

I agree that we have to be more generous, our tech capability and economy so far outstrip the other 2 that we have to cut them some slack.

Here was one possible scheme that I was thinking of pitching to goW:

GS: Steam/Electricity/Sci Method/Atom Theory/Electronics/Rep Parts/radio/motorized transportation
GoW: Medicine/Industrialization/Corporation/Refining/Combustion/mass production/amphib warfare
ND: Nationalism/Steel/Espionage??/cash to us/flight

with ND/GoW reversing some depending on capabiliities.

actually now that I look at the above, I think we would have to do another tech rather than GoW, have them do 4 turns of gold or something. they just don't have that capacity.

RP will probably be better off just building conq's after they gain navigation. I see them providing a possible 4th entry point onto legoland