Industrial Research with GoW

[Cort Haus]

With part one of the GoW tech deal safely seen through to conclusion, we have a platform to consider shared industrial research - something Aggie urged us to consider and plan for.

Getting GoW to research Medicine while we did Steam-Electricity was never a likely option. What do GoW want Medicine for unless they want to help us to the ToE?

Industrialisation has to be the tech.

1. GoW would want it.
2. It doesn't immediately telegraph our plans.
3. We might want to get in a factory or two sooner rather than later.
4. Possible Uni Suff prebuild for Hoover.

There are a number of storylines that spring to mind. but in essence we research Steam, give it to GoW, and they do Industrialisation while we do Electricity then Medicine.

If we hit the IA in 7 turns (maybe six), GoW will have Mil Trad and either we let them research ToG while we do Steam, or we trade ToG for cash, which they could save waiting for Steam.

Beyond that, we might not want to go unless we're very snug with GoW. Never having researched Amphibious Warfare, or built a Marine, I was alarmed both by the 12 attack-rating, and the lack of techs needed from the lower branches.

So if GoW did Corporation and traded that to us for Electricity, they'd only need Replaceable Parts, Refining, Steel, Combustion, Mass Production and Amphibious Warfare. Six techs, maybe five if someone researched Steel for them.

[Cort Haus]

However, GoW may consider Nationalism to be a priority. I doubt they facy their chances of dashing instead for Rep Parts without a lot more of Bob.

In fact, Nationalism is a certain priority for them over Industrialisation. Maybe they could do it after the expensive Nationalism, unless they want Espionage for spies - which could become an element in this game.

[asleepathewheel]

sounds interesting.

I'm wondering when GoW will betray us and break our NDA's, its only a matter of time as the game is winding down.

What are our research goals, assuming we get ToE and take through electronics? Then RP for the rubber locations. What then? Maybe we should consider getting sanitation to boost city size and defense (Does the city size defense come into play against marines?)



I think once we know someone has the tech before marines, we should possibly come up with a diplomatic paper stating in effect that we would destroy any ship that sailed within a certain distance of our coastline. I think we could use a screenshot and either divide the sea in half from GS to Bob, or push our sea border out to where trans couldnt' hit from. Obviously the weakpoint is RP and whatever city they renamed from Wittlich city.

The good thing is IMHO, that lego is the only one with nav, and we can spread a deeper defensive frigate/ironclad net east.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
However, GoW may consider Nationalism to be a priority. I doubt they facy their chances of dashing instead for Rep Parts without a lot more of Bob.

In fact, Nationalism is a certain priority for them over Industrialisation. Maybe they could do it after the expensive Nationalism, unless they want Espionage for spies - which could become an element in this game.

I think you're right. rifles are pretty necessary for them. I wouldn't feel safe with just muskets around.



Hey, here's an off topic thought. Maybe we could upgrade a galley and send the caravel out east to see if LEgo has a picket line of ships. I'd be really curious to see if they have a sea wall up. I think we could do it without being seen, as long as we turn back if we run across another ship.


Also we will get privateers soon, I think we should build some to scout coastlines again. If nothing else, it will make the game interesting (of course we might just build a few and wait until other civs have the tech.)

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel

Hey, here's an off topic thought. Maybe we could upgrade a galley and send the caravel out east to see if LEgo has a picket line of ships. I'd be really curious to see if they have a sea wall up. I think we could do it without being seen, as long as we turn back if we run across another ship.

Also we will get privateers soon, I think we should build some to scout coastlines again. If nothing else, it will make the game interesting (of course we might just build a few and wait until other civs have the tech.)

Two galleys are (belatedly) coming south to explore the darkness. Maybe we should say to RP that we want to take our galleys exploring (maybe upgrading to Galleons first), so build mkts instead please. There might be an Australia btw us and Lego. Lego might already have found it

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
I think once we know someone has the tech before marines, we should possibly come up with a diplomatic paper stating in effect that we would destroy any ship that sailed within a certain distance of our coastline.

We need a badass navy to back this up.

[vmxa1]

I am not so sure about Privateers. They are rater weak and will not fool anyone. I don't see any reason why we can't have a few ships out in ocean tiles in plain sight. We could even alert Lego to their coming to avoid any misunderstandings.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


We need a badass navy to back this up.

yes we will

but how else we will possibly defend against marines? I think we can only hope to survive by catching them on the open seas. Regardless of our current relations with GoW, I have no doubt that if they can attack us, they will.

I honestly can't remember the PTW ship upgrade path. Do frigates upgrade to anything? We could start by having a couple dedicated sea power cities now (if bank and uni is finished) building frigates (who if nothing else can take up a sea lane or bombard a target)

How do you see this all CH? What I see is if someone wants to make a dedicated attack on one of our cities with marines, it will fall. The good thing is, we can move all the eastern units to the western threatened cities, using a line of ocean pickets to guard against lego. I would expect a series of transports along the coast, all but one set empty, to force us to divide our defenders equally.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by vmxa1
I am not so sure about Privateers. They are rater weak and will not fool anyone. I don't see any reason why we can't have a few ships out in ocean tiles in plain sight. We could even alert Lego to their coming to avoid any misunderstandings.

they are weak but....

I expect that there is no sea travel now to pick on anyway.

and if everyone (nearly) could build privateers we could deny they were ours. Granted, we are really the only ones besides lego that can afford to spend production on such things.

mainly use them for scouting missions, give us updated info on lego's coast and sea wall.

If we tell lego that we are sending galleons over now, they might say the same thing in 30 turns (aka marines). I dont think we should set that precedent.

[Cort Haus]

I think we should have at least 60-70 turns before Marines. We don't need to defend every city every turn as long as we have a good system of pickets - probably 2 deep, maybe 3 deep in places - which could be frigate (galleon rather for us - no SP), then ironclad, then destroyer. None of these upgrade to each other. The only ship upgrade we could do is maybe our 5 galleys to Galleons.

idea :

We could upgrade the two galleys heading south and put some knights in - or maybe build a settler. If we find a little blob of land out there, it could have a strategic resource on it.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
I think we should have at least 60-70 turns before Marines. We don't need to defend every city every turn as long as we have a good system of pickets - probably 2 deep, maybe 3 deep in places - which could be frigate (galleon rather for us - no SP), then ironclad, then destroyer. None of these upgrade to each other. The only ship upgrade we could do is maybe our 5 galleys to Galleons.

idea :

We could upgrade the two galleys heading south and put some knights in - or maybe build a settler. If we find a little blob of land out there, it could have a strategic resource on it.

have we accounted for all the saltpeter in the world? there should be 6 deposits. Assuming lego has all of their hooked up...might be some lurking around someplace.

[vmxa1]

Frigates do not upgrade in PTW IIRC.
I would not send a galleon to scout, but rather a frigate. That is not going to be an issue for anyone and if they send out one, It won't matter. It is transports that no one wants to see out and about.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Frigates do not upgrade in PTW IIRC.
I would not send a galleon to scout, but rather a frigate. That is not going to be an issue for anyone and if they send out one, It won't matter. It is transports that no one wants to see out and about.

we don't have saltpeter, so no frigates I forgot about that until CH reminded me.

[Arrian]

If we hit the IA in 7 turns (maybe six), GoW will have Mil Trad and either we let them research ToG while we do Steam, or we trade ToG for cash, which they could save waiting for Steam.

Sounds good in theory, but I see a major pitfall:

With MT, another war might break out. If it does, research proposals will take a back seat to victory in war - meaning GoW's research might get turned off.

So let's approach this one step at a time.

Let's see if we can get GoW to do medicine. Who knows? Maybe they want it.

We *could* do medicine ourselves and have them do SP.

Some of this depends on the timing. Do we know exactly when they will be prepared to start researching on Industrial Age tech? Hmm, I should go check the log...

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

Arrian, I estimate they'll have Mil Trad around the same time we get ToG. One civ had Metallurgy last turn, I haven't checked the previous turn or two. They also have to raise another 200g for us.

Don't you think Nationalism is going to be high priority for them, though? Even mentioning Medicine to them would telegraph our plans, and GoW won't need the lower branches except for Electricity for Rep Parts and eventually Mass Prod.

I'm wondering, then, about us researching Industrialisation after Steam. We are about 8 turns ahead of the original budget, and we may also shave a turn off each estimate for the Ind techs.

I'll check the Smith's thread where I logged the plans.