T167 : 520ad

[DeepO]

Hmmm... what about sending a message to GoW, telling 'sorry, but we couldn't be stalled anymore. You could still sell us chemistry, but as we've started working on it already, it would be at greatly discounted prices. We have no interest in trading it to physics anymore, but maybe you'd sell it to us for 300 gold? Offer applies for 1 turn only, otherwise there is no point."

One thing: if we trade physics to GoW on a 20 turn NDA, we prohibit them of trading it to Lego. Which mean we can stall Lego's race to ToE a bit... that's a very important reason to take into account when wanting to do deals with GoW.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Re: Current Builds

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Inchoff - Aqua - 42/100s. 58 remaining. 12 turns at 5spt = 60. We need to speed the aqua by a turn for growth timing. Suggest shortrushing 3 shield from 57-60 vie granary in 3 turns time.

sure thing...

Dissville - Aqua - 64/100s, 36 remaining. 4 turns at 10spt = 40. Can short-rush 6 shields via Knight to save a turn (or a Lib next turn), but is it worth it?

24 gold for a 1-turn faster lib (as I assume that's next)? I'd do it.

OG - Aquaduct - 98/100. 2spt. Has given most shields to Tempest & BB (wonder cities) and is on food. Good galley candidate.

IIRC, it had a lib, but no courthouse yet, right? at any rate, this is a good galley candidate for sure...

Tempest - Newtons (via Bank). 64/400s at 21 spt.

a bank is 200 shields, no? so we have to make sure we get to our tech in less then 8 turns (as tech comes before city builds, so when the screen comes up, we can switch from bank to Newton). Can this be done? Please don't spend any gold before we know we can get this...

Bolderberg - Magellans via Bank 10/400 @ 10spt

are we sure we can put this on a palace prebuild when the time comes? And don't we need the palace for a ToE prebuild?

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

I was thinking too about offering cash to GoW for Chemistry - although (1) they won't believe we've done research on it, and (2) can stall us further - we have to haggle a price and then hope they deliver.

There are other prebuilds (old wonders available) including Sistine - and the Palace will become available in about 18 turns if/when we get Copernicus. You may have a point though - I'll think about this later.

[Cort Haus]

Great Library is 400 shields - so that'll hold Magellan's.

I wonder whether Lego are going for Smith's, or beelining straight for Industrial, or getting Magellan's instead for their GA - or maybe they're planning on using Vox to trigger it.

[Cort Haus]

PM to MZ here .

[Cort Haus]

How much would Incense be worth to GoW in cash terms? I mentioned it to MZ. Of course, they'd have to send us Chemistry accepted this turn and trust us to pay them.

Chem cost was ~1050 beakers, so we'd have somewhere over 750 left on it.

[DeepO]

well... there would be some 750 left, so 300 would be my maximum in gold I would give for it. If they stall another turn, they can get 150 or so. After that, they can give it for free, if they want.

And I kept into account the older wonders, but... we might need to think of masking our prebuilds. If they see us building the GLib, they can calculate exactly how many turns we need in that city before we reach the 400 shields...

I was also thinking on using Sistine's right now, on cities that have no real shot at a wonder. The more we get them confused, the better. What about setting EotS to Sistine for a couple of turns?

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

I was thinking about wonder-switching too. Keep assigning different wonders to different cities each turn, as if we're chopping, to make it a PITA for them to keep track of.

Once we've grown up all the new aqua cities we could consider chopping programmes as you mentioned before, Deepo - alongside fort building on coastal mountains.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by DeepO
well... there would be some 750 left, so 300 would be my maximum in gold I would give for it. If they stall another turn, they can get 150 or so. After that, they can give it for free, if they want.

And I kept into account the older wonders, but... we might need to think of masking our prebuilds. If they see us building the GLib, they can calculate exactly how many turns we need in that city before we reach the 400 shields...

I was also thinking on using Sistine's right now, on cities that have no real shot at a wonder. The more we get them confused, the better. What about setting EotS to Sistine for a couple of turns?

DeepO

can we even build the library anymore? Its not showing up on my build lists. Kinda dumb, but I guess the AI would probably build it even if expired, whereas we would use it as a mere prebuild or culture producer.

on the switching around of wonders.

[asleepathewheel]

we can however use hanging gardens as a prebuild, only rp and lego ( ) have monarchy.

does anyone have navigation?

[DeepO]

I think we still can build the GLib, yes... it used to be so that obsolete wonders could still be build for their culture value, I don't see how any of the patches would have changed that.

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

from ND

I got this slightly cryptic reply from Zayxus (copy in log):

For ND the possible deals are still considered .

Greetings
Zayxus

[Cort Haus]

from MZ

(copy in log)

Ok, some last minute negotiation:

To be honest we were (are) very interested in keeping the original two trades that we had planned. To GoW it will be very inefficient to end up having to research Magnetism in the same way that GS will find it innefficient to do Chemistry.

I understand that GS has now spent 1 turn researching Chemistry so we would like to propose the following. We will send GS Chemistry accepted this turn (I currently have the save) in exchange for Physics once GS finishes it. To compensate for the 1 lost turn of research, GoW will, when finished with Metallurgy (in 5-6 turns IIRC) will dedicate one full turn towards taxes and send to GS the monetary equivalent of the research that GS spent last turn.

That should compensate the lost turn for GS and enable both of our teams to obtain a tech which it would otherwise have had to research separately.

I hope this agreement is satisfactory and can rightfully make up for this lost turn.

Thank you and apologies for this whole damn mess.

Regards
-MZ

[Cort Haus]

This deal isn't enough.

1. I doubt one turn's worth of their stinking research will compensate for the near-300 beakers we've just put in.

2. Our Physics on the turn we complete will be far more valuable than their Chemistry now. Physics is more expensive even before devaluations.

This deal sees GoW doing one over us, but it still could be in our interests. We should ask 400g + Chem to be a fair trade now, but we could accept 300.

[vmxa1]

It seems to be a hard one to take, but does it help us or not?
It does, would we be worse off with no deal, yup.

Can we afford to lose more ground towards Lego?