Turn 158 - 430AD

[Cort Haus]

With a bit of chaining the last remaining units can be withdrawn this turn.

Still no news from GoW - I suppose if they don't get back to us for this turn then we could just disband the two cities. On the other hand, we can do without losing the Silk, so hanging on has its appeal.

[DeepO]

Maybe better to contact them first, these are holiday periods after all

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

OK, I just PM'd MZ and Aggie.

[Cort Haus]

Reply from Aggie and my ackn here .

They're discussing it, and they also want RP to make peace with them. Fair enough, I think the feeling here is that continued war for ww is not a good idea.

I also suggested a lux trade - are there any objections to that? I say yes, we need it for WLTK on size 6 cities, and also for the size 12's.

[Cort Haus]

GoW are interested in a lux deal .

[Harovan]

Why is perpetual war for ww an exploit?

[DeepO]

Exploit might be a too big a term, but seeing as we saved RP from any invasion for the next 100 turns at least (that is if we keep the sea wall in one piece), them staying at war just to annoy GoW doesn't seem fair. There is no way for GoW to end the war, or to get a diminishment of WW on their own... if it would ever get that far, I would vote to urge RP to make peace with GoW, yes. And with ND as well, if they ever want to talk. RP (and we) lost the war, no need to make asses of ourselves.

DeepO

[Harovan]

Next question: Why would we be fair to GoW?

[Cort Haus]

It's not so much about being fair to GoW, as much as the general principle of using WW as a kind of blackmail or punishment tool, and setting a precedent for such.

Until recently I had been open to using this device, but have been swayed by the arguments of team-mates here who felt it could set an unhealthy example.

[DeepO]

On top of that, we might need GoW later on as friends...

But yes, I agree with CH, I don't like the blackmail principle. It's one of those things that only annoys people, and doesn't really help the ones doing it. I've been annoyed enough in this game, especially in the public forum, I don't want to start annoying others in-game. (other then taking their land, razing their cities, and raping their army widows, of course)

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

from MZ

We have been discussing the situation with the two cities Barcelona and New Madrid and we are willing to offer GS a free lux deal for them or perhaps a favorable (to GS) tech trade. Tell me what you guys think.

[asleepathewheel]

what does favorable mean?

If its chemistry for the two cities, then ok, if not, or some weird tech deal that might never come to fruition, then....

[vmxa1]

I sort of lean to Sir Ralphs point. If you go to war with someone and can not eliminate them you may have to face the prospect of endless war and the WW that comes with it.

I don't view it as a blackmail as we are not the instigators. We already agree to peace did we not? I think is honorable to suggest peace to RP, but we don't have to demand it or lean on them.

Of course if I had been in on all the whole game, I would probably be way to mad to be considerate and only care about getting my pound of flesh.

It is true we may need GoW, but if we do they will need us as well and either way it is not clear that they would recipricate in any event.

My limited expose to ND would suggest they do not have any breaks coming.

[vmxa1]

Oh BTW CH my hats off to you for a yeoman job of caring out the game and the diplomacy. It looks like a fair amount of work.

[Cort Haus]

Cheers, vmxa1

So, gentlemen. GoW have agreed to trade us Chemistry for New Madrid and Barcelona, with a wines-for-furs deal as part of the package. This is excellent news. We didn't think we'd get a tech and we have.