Turn 139, 210AD

[DeepO]

One comment on the build orders: we might need Sandstorm back in growth mode, if we can. I see us needing quite a few more settlers the coming 15 turns, not only for RP, but also for our invasion we're going to need at least one. Cyclone is not really an option: our next settler could barely reach Wittlich, any one after that would be too late for our first wave. And D-ville won't be ready for quite some time to come.

DeepO

[notyoueither]

EotS grows this turn, then the fp's can be shuffled back for SS to grow.

re the armies and disposition of reserves...

All of ND's 11 ansars at Pamp 4 4 can make it into the south and be very near us in one turn. They can make it to the gates of our proposed fortress at Barca 4 4 4 4

[Velociryx]

It seems clear what their game is (Gow, in the southern portion of Spain)....as we approach the cities to recapture, they'll burn them and retreat. To that end, we either need to be able to hit two at once (to maybe save one), or simply pull up here and wait for a settler to rebuild, thus slowly extending our lines (and our borders, which limits their options to move freely in the south).

The danger with hitting two at once is that our force is spread to thin to support each other, and we'll get pasted, so in this case, at least in the south, I prefer a slow, measured response, slowly expanding and pushing those borders out for Spain, with our troops cresting that wave to kill anything that approaches the cities.

Let them play. Let them think that they're "tying up a large percentage of our force" by trying to chase them thru the south.

The end result will be that we slowly rebuild cities for Spain, while buying time to get the real attack force ready to flatten GoW.

I propose we don't do anything in particular provacative toward ND at this time.

Let them stew in it, and let them wonder. Focus on GoW first. Crush them like a beercan, split the cities with Spain, and then both we and a newly strengthened Spain can tango with ND.

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

See...the thing is...GoW has their game down. They're planning on hit and run tactics with their superior movement.

So...we should play General Sherman to their Lee. We become the meatgrinder...not getting distracted, not chasing after them, but bulding up an irresistable WALL of freaking troops that they'll either have no choice but to hurl themselves at, or simply get washed away.

The south is a diversion, so let us not be diverted ourselves....hold up here and wait for a settler, then we have something to defend, and that was the goal all along.

-=Vel=-

[Theseus]

I am not so sure I agree, Vel...

I also want to keep GoW using up their movement, and using up the their units.

I also want to draw ND down in a south to east arc, if possible, same logic.

Pushing a wall and Settlers forward is fine, but we should concurrently be setting out enough bait to draw them out.

[zeit]

Until we have some real settlements to defend, there's no reason why we shouldn't keep our small diversion in the south going- it has some concrete strategic importance as well- Merida (or was it another town?), if I'm not mistaken, nets GoW and ND another lux, which they probably need badly, and its also one of the main reasons their in this war. If we take it from them, their down one lux, and pushed further into the walls of Sal.

If we take back what they gained, we might drive them into an assault against Pamplona, out of frustration, maybe.

[Velociryx]

Don't know...I'm just looking at it like this:

How many of GoW's guys did we kill after they sacked V, and was that number worth the loss of the city?

If not, and we rinse and repeat that same cycle...it sorta feels like we're shooting ourselves in the foot, trying to catch 3-move guys with 1-move guys....an uphill battle, to say the least.

On the other hand, a settler plopped down to rebuild V would be dangling a HUGE bait in front of them, cos they'd see further signs of a re-strengthening Spain....rinse and repeat THAT, and they'd have no choice but an attack on our terms....

-=Vel=-

[Shiber]

Vel is right.
Rebuilding Spain in front of their eyes is exactly the kind of thing that will boil the blood of the hotheads. We have to make them angry in order to make them throw ration away, like they did when they declared that they'd lose just to see us not win.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Astronomy and Invention are out there. At 48 bpt they are:

Invention 18t (should be 22)
Astronomy 26t (should be 28)
Banking 26t. ok
PPress18t. ok

Can we estimate when GoW (or ND) would get gunpowder running at 100% science? I think we have to hit them in their homeland before they can get muskets, otherwise...

[Velociryx]

True, but there is a window....even AFTER they get the tech for muskets, if they're pushing hard to build cheap guys and upgrade to their UU's, they're not going to have the cash needed for a mass round of defensive upgrades...as it stands now, I believe (firmly) that their money is being spent offensively....I do not think they understand that we are gearing up for an offensive....rather, they think we're content to simply hold the line....which is another reason I'm in support of rebuilding V and holding...it reinforces that image....

-=Vel=-

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Velociryx
True, but there is a window....even AFTER they get the tech for muskets, if they're pushing hard to build cheap guys and upgrade to their UU's, they're not going to have the cash needed for a mass round of defensive upgrades...as it stands now, I believe (firmly) that their money is being spent offensively....I do not think they understand that we are gearing up for an offensive....rather, they think we're content to simply hold the line....which is another reason I'm in support of rebuilding V and holding...it reinforces that image....

-=Vel=-

Good points.

I think that they have lots of money, though they will spend it almost entirely offensively. They really don't need to upgrade the pikes until we land, but when we land, boom, all can be upgraded. Lucky for us, Nd can't get them a large infusion of cash after we land.

ND probably isn't researching anything at all now (or GoW depending on who is getting gunpowder) So I would think they would have loads of money. Esp if they are hording up for when they get leo's in imperial city (probably only a handful of turns away) Like the doctor said when I was born, its gonna get ugly.