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  • Proposals and Odd Ideas re: our war...

    Wasn't sure WHERE to post this, so I thought I'd make a new thread for it....

    General observations:
    1) Agree that striking south to the cities of: Salamanca, Valencia, Merida, Essigbar, and Murcia is the way to go, for our first offensive.

    2) Salamanca troubles me. We (GS) don’t need it, and I’m not sure if RP can hold it if we retake it and gift it back to them (assuming it doesn’t autoraze). If it autorazes, I think we ought to just let it die quietly….least till the dust settles.

    3) We need to prepare at least one, preferably two settlers for our push to reclaim southern cities. That way, if any of them (especially Murcia/Valencia) autoraze, we can rebuild them quickly and gift those cities back to RP.

    4) If we’re heading south, then IMO, our first objective should be Valencia/Murcia, with what forces we can shift from their current positions on Bob moving to the hill just NE of Valencia in preparation for a push, with galley-forces en route to that location.

    5) Ideally, we’ll have sufficient firepower to bring to bear with our beach head forces to retake (hopefully without autorazing) Valencia, and then, could bring our galley forces into the city direct, for a push against Murcia.

    6) My reasons for preferring an initial strike at those two cities is simply that it extends and expands the beachhead, and frankly, they’re easier to hold onto (an important consideration for a beleaguered RP), because they’re further from the front—where we can expect to see a steady stream of enemy fast movers coming from. Also, the fact that it denies our enemies a lux and some really productive real estate cannot be overstated!

    7) If we mean to give those two cities back to RP (and I think that it’s the overwhelmingly right choice), then Essigbar MUST not be allowed to remain in enemy hands. I propose then, that we mass troops in front of it and hammer them mercilessly with Cats until they either leave, or are too weak to withstand a general assault.

    8) By the time we achieve these goals, we’ll have a good many more assets on Bob (at least one more trip with the galleys….don’t really have a sense for how many turns it takes them to make the trip), and while we’re freeing up those two RP cities, we need to get the road from Barcelona to Salamanca/Merida rebuilt, and start massing troops in that vicinity for a strike, with the plan being to link up with the force that takes Essigbar. What forces are left in the vicinity will be hard pressed to hold Essigbar against the force we’ll have moving up from the south, and will likely simply flee toward Salamanca so as not to get crunched between our two forces. Alternately, they may attempt to lash out at the forces massing near Salamanca, but if they do, they as good as give up both cities, regardless of the outcome of that battle.

    9) With the south secure, we focus on giving RP time to properly defend their cities, running interference for them, and generally blocking in strategic terrain, while massing additional forces and preparing roads for a second push.

    10) I realize that this does nothing in the immediacy to relieve RP’s situation in Pamplona…what it DOES do is give them back some semblance of an economy to work with, clean up one “front” in this war, and make the lands around Pamp a LOT more predictable and safe…at that point (the point at which Salamanca is taken), RP will see relief in their capitol.

    11) We need to do all of the above while focusing on the most cost-effective troops available....Pike and Med Inf....this means being VERY careful with what Knights we have, as I'd like to see us not adding many (if any) knights to our force till we get a bulked up population of pike and medinfs. They are in their GA's, and their units are pound for pound better than what we can throw at them. Since we can't beat them in terms of quality, let's go quantity to offset that.

    Thoughts?

    -=Vel=-
    The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

  • #2
    Works for me. Whatever force we land, however, had better have good pike protection, or it's gonna get splattered. There's a lot of firepower down there, between the Riders & Ansars.

    Definitely agree on the settlers, btw. If we land with a force they feel they don't want to attack, they will probably abandon cities and withdraw to higher ground (which will present us with all sorts of problems). Since the culture influence of all the cities down there will be 1, there will be an awful lot of neutral territory up in the hills/mountains where their Riders & Ansars can go to. If they pick a good spot, they can force us to spread out our pikes to defend the cities (and keep us from gifting the cities back to RP), and deny us the ability to destroy them. Hmm... I wanna look at that map again.

    -Arrian
    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

    Comment


    • #3
      TOTAL agreement on the pike protection....I'm all for shifting pike and med inf production into high gear for that very reason.

      And if the baddies retreat to the high ground, I propose we treat them to the same medicine we treated the voxians....paste them with cats til they take the hint and skedaddle, or are too weak for the terrain boost to save them.

      -=Vel=-
      The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

      Comment


      • #4
        Ok, looked at the map, and here are my thoughts:

        Valencia is the city that matters most and is easiest to defend down there. Accordingly, that is the only one we try to keep until we've destroyed most of the enemy's forces in the area.

        Otherwise, imagine that they just abandon cities and mass a big 'ole stack of Riders on Valencia 4, 4, 7 (hill, across river). They can reach Murcia from there, and also remain fairly impervious to attack (we'd have to march a slowmover stack over there and either attack cross the river, taking the 25% combat odds hit, or march the stack further around to the north. Meanwhile, of course, they could just move again). Valencia, however, is somewhat protected by forest which would prevent GoW from hitting it from V 447.

        I'll say this in the RP 130 thread too: RP's regular pikeman that is wandering around in the mnts really should move 4, 7, and fortify. That mountain road is a reinforcement highway for ND! At least make them punch through 3hps of 6.75 defense (and warn us by killing the unit)!

        -Arrian
        grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

        The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

        Comment


        • #5
          And if the baddies retreat to the high ground, I propose we treat them to the same medicine we treated the voxians....paste them with cats til they take the hint and skedaddle, or are too weak for the terrain boost to save them.
          There are two problems with that:

          1) Vox's troops were in our territory, and therefore could not heal. We would need a lot of settlers, plus 116 gold per city, plus 6 turns, to close off the neutral territory I'm worried about (build city, set to temple, wait 1 turn, rush, 5 turns after that we get the culture expansion).

          2) Vox's troops were slowmovers. Immortals could not outrun us. GoW & ND's main attack forces are 3-move units that can run rings around us.

          In short, it ain't that easy, Vel.

          -Arrian
          grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

          The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

          Comment


          • #6
            Quite true, Master Arrian....on all counts....however: as you say, their main advantage is their speed.....that is the advantage they give up by running to high ground. We can MAKE them move per the plan above, and if they move, we can't outrun them (until and unless we get the borders sorted out, which will take time). Thus, the only real option we have when facing an enemy we can't catch up to, is to force him to come to us, or to attack him in unfavorable situations (as you mentioned).

            Probably, we'll have to do a bit of both, but where possible, we should opt for the first one.

            This means, specifically NOT creating uber stacks that they feel they cannot defeat. It means keeping the stacks thin, give them the feeling that they CAN take us on, and let them come (with a follow-up force sitting somewhere they can't quite see to mop up after).

            We can do this....I know we can....

            -=Vel=-
            The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

            Comment


            • #7
              This means, specifically NOT creating uber stacks that they feel they cannot defeat. It means keeping the stacks thin, give them the feeling that they CAN take us on, and let them come (with a follow-up force sitting somewhere they can't quite see to mop up after).
              I agree. The "mop up" force should have cats and any elite WCs we still have, btw.

              -Arrian
              grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

              The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

              Comment


              • #8
                We're gonna kick some a$$, General Arrian! Let's roll these b@astards!

                -=Vel=-
                The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

                Comment


                • #9
                  By the way, does anybody have a reliable count of the forces in the southlands? Any educated guesses what we're facing there, and by extension, how much we can afford to pull out of the areas further north?
                  TOTAL agreement on blocking that road, btw....in fact, we need to see 'bout getting some more forces over that way as soon as feasible to re-seal it if it gets broke through, or to help defend it if not.

                  -=Vel=-
                  The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    GoW started with 14 Riders, IIRC. Subtract the 2 we killed, and whatever they lost attacking cities down south. Figure 1 more, maybe two? That means 10-11 Riders.

                    Ansars... harder to tell, I think. NYE may know.

                    -Arrian
                    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hmmm....and what do we have currently en route via galleys to the front? With whatever that is, plus what we can pull from northward at the beachhead, we may have enough right there to begin a play....

                      -=Vel=-
                      The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        we killed 3 so far, and they attacked 3-4 pikes in a walled hill city. At most we'll be looking at 11 riders, but more likely about 8 or so.

                        BTW: when planning things: currently, most of those riders are damaged, but they started healing this turn if they didn't repositioned them. By next turn, they will have healed a bit of their forces, in 2 turns they will be full health. If we want to exploit that, we should act now, to catch them either out of position, or not at full health.

                        DeepO

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                        • #13
                          Not sure if that's a big enough window to really take advantage of it....how long till our galleys full o' trouble arrive? And how quickly can we mass forces to that front?

                          But yes, if we can get our act together down that way in that timeframe, then we most certainly should!

                          -=Vel=-
                          The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Vel, I thought we had already some 35 units on Bob, including some 10 knights. However, those close by are damaged in our last attack on the riders. The galleys, I think, are primarily to transport troops more South, not to get troops from Stormia to Bob. And we have 7-8 galleys being used as a ferry service, with more on route if we want to (which we might need to do, 3 of them are still up North, where they killed a couple of GoW galleys). A few galleys are still en route, as they were build on the East side of Stormia.

                            We might take advantage of the gap in attendance from GoW by moving a couple of our slowmovers close to Valencia. Because there is no road, they will have to cross flats for 1 turn, better to do that while few healthy rider are in reach. I think we can have some 8 units there this turn, IIRC, with more defending the hill next to Barca. Together with some knights, this might be enough to take Valencia in 3 turns, or at least create enough of a diversion to keep GoW from stacking Salamanca, and pinching Pamplona.

                            DeepO

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                            • #15
                              Then I'd recommend moving everything not essential to holding what we've already got to the Valencian front with all possible speed. If we have tranny troops that can participate, fine and good, but if not, let's hit them with what we can put together. If we lose Med Infs. and such, and they lose their fancy schmancy troops, we still come out ahead in shields, and by a respectable margin, even if we take more losses. So....let's kick them the hell outta the southlands!

                              -=Vel=-
                              The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

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