Rp, 110ad

[notyoueither]

[notyoueither]

Exactly why is NM still ours? RP reports it was not offered.

They are at 0 gold. They are checking for what got sold and or disbanded.

Grrrrrfrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[notyoueither]

After a bit of scouting.

[notyoueither]

Session Start: Thu Aug 14 23:29:52 2003
Session Ident: #milops
[23:29] * Now talking in #milops
[23:29] *nye* allo
[23:30] *Togas* hello, right now BF is catching up on logs
[23:30] *nye* ok
[23:30] *Togas* we may or may not play save tonight. Depends on what issues are brought up
[23:31] *Togas* we need to decide if we want to just turtle up or if we want to play along with some sort of cease-fire
[23:32] * BigFree has joined #MilOps
[23:32] *BigFree* GoW is trying to get us to switch to the dark side
[23:32] *BigFree* screw them
[23:32] *BigFree* rather
[23:32] *BigFree* lets screw with them
[23:32] *BigFree* let them think we are considering it
[23:32] *BigFree* if its possible
[23:32] *Arnelos_IDLE* BF - post in the thread I started about this
[23:33] *BigFree* then turn around and bite their asses
[23:33] *nye* did we not offer nm?
[23:33] *Arnelos_IDLE* BF - this is what I was considering if you read the logs
[23:33] *Togas* I don't want us to act in a purely emotional basis. Should we do this, we must do it because it logically gains something for us, or gives us some advantage
[23:33] *BigFree* I read about half of them
[23:33] *BigFree* I have not written off our chances
[23:34] * Arnelos_IDLE is now known as Arnelos
[23:34] *BigFree* as soon as we can get back Toledo and NM.....
[23:34] *nye* did we not offer nm?
[23:34] *Arnelos* NYE - btw... an idea I had...
[23:34] *BigFree* though they will need a modicum of support from GS
[23:34] *Arnelos* Togas - did they offer NM?
[23:34] *BigFree* nope
[23:34] *nye* ****!
[23:34] *Togas* no offer
[23:34] *BigFree* NM nor Toledo was offered
[23:34] *BigFree* we are way short on gold
[23:34] *nye* toledo is under barb threat
[23:34] *BigFree* o in the treasury
[23:34] *nye* did we offer gold?
[23:35] *BigFree* nope
[23:35] *Togas* no offer
[23:35] *nye* you have my very deepest apologies
[23:35] *BigFree* we have 0 in the treasury and making -12 gpt
[23:35] *Arnelos* NYE - the idea I had: You guys gift us a city on Elucidia which can be held in reserve in the event we lose all cities on Bob... then, if the Bobian campaign meets success afterall, you can gift us cities on Bob (we give the Elucidian city back) and we manage Bobian territory while giving you tech and luxes as in our previous agreement
[23:35] *BigFree* we have to disband units and improvements
[23:35] *Togas* Arnelos, you mean Stormia
[23:35] *Togas* Estonia
[23:35] *Arnelos* oh, yeah
[23:35] *Arnelos* I'm an idiot
[23:35] *Arnelos* whatever
[23:36] *nye* ok. first things first...
[23:36] *BigFree* LOL
[23:36] *Arnelos* Stormia, Estonia, Elucidia, whatever
[23:36] *nye* 1. either the problem with cities is fixed and gold is forwarded, or we will have a minor civil war in gs
[23:36] *nye* 2. granting a city on stormia is certainly possible
[23:37] *BigFree* whats the problem #1?
[23:37] *nye* it is what i have been thinking might be needed
[23:37] *nye* i do not know, bf
[23:37] *nye* the player was supposed to do certain things. they did not happen
[23:37] *BigFree* [22:35] *nye* 1. either the problem with cities is fixed and gold is forwarded, or we will have a minor civil war in gs
[23:37] *Arnelos* the idea is that we can manage Bobian cities without corruption, essentially a free Forbidden Palace if we're kept alive... even transferable from place to place by gifting and receiving cities
[23:37] *BigFree* oh, I get it
[23:38] *Togas* arnelos, I see that as our last-ditch option.
[23:38] *Arnelos* I agree
[23:38] *nye* as do i
[23:38] *Togas* GoW and ND are going to have to expell MASSIVE force to take out pamplona
[23:38] *Togas* and they're skiddish about doing so with GS forces so close
[23:38] *Arnelos* but I like to plan for the worst as well as for the fortunate
[23:38] *nye* we should grantone just to stop the possibility of the snuff though, at this point
[23:38] *BigFree* nye, to your knowledge GS was supposed to offer us gold and NM but it did not happen; so you are saying their will be a small civil war in team GS over the issue?
[23:39] *nye* there may be. i am very much not happy
[23:39] *Togas* BF, I think he's saying that "heads will roll" if the turn player makes that kinda mistake again.
[23:39] *BigFree* LOL
[23:39] *BigFree* OK
[23:39] *BigFree* I accept a mistake now and then
[23:39] *nye* this was a big one
[23:39] *BigFree* It was likely not intentional
[23:39] *nye* what got disbanded?
[23:39] *BigFree* nothing yet
[23:39] *BigFree* we have to decide
[23:40] *BigFree* or wait
[23:40] *nye* nothing disbanded? no buildings?
[23:40] *Togas* I need to open the save and see.
[23:40] *nye* please check
[23:41] *BigFree* As far as I can tell, nothing got disbanded
[23:41] *Arnelos* out of interest... who played the save for GS? If it's who I think it was, I'll chuckle a bit for having similar problems
[23:41] *nye* shiber
[23:41] *Arnelos* oh, oh well
[23:41] *BigFree* I'm curious...if GS gifts us gold during it next turn, will it count to our trerasury before it checks for upkeep costs....
[23:42] *Arnelos* OPD didn't implement all of my DM orders for MAST in the past 3-4 saves... I was going to laugh if he goofed the GS save as well
[23:42] *nye* i think the gold arrives first, bf
[23:42] *BigFree* that would be good
[23:42] *Togas* interesting
[23:42] *BigFree* that means we dont have to disband anything
[23:42] *nye* yes. that would be very good
[23:42] *Togas* it shows us at 0g. -4gpt
[23:42] *Togas* does not ask to disband anything...
[23:43] *nye* you must have lost stuff this turn
[23:43] *Togas* all improvements remain
[23:43] *BigFree* Togas, Im at -12gpt
[23:43] *Arnelos* 4could we do a sim and test that? whether the gold arrives first or not?
[23:43] *nye* it does not ask. it does
[23:43] *BigFree* how do you get only -4gpt
[23:43] *Togas* I'm at -4 because I told the cpu to "ignore" the rioters
[23:43] *nye* 1 building and 1 unit per turn
[23:43] *Togas* instead of giving them entertainment
[23:43] *BigFree* ah
[23:44] *BigFree* will we get gold in a rioting city and only miss the shields?
[23:44] *nye* so, you have 0 lux and 0 resource, yes?
[23:44] *BigFree* yes
[23:44] *BigFree* 1 lux in Barcelona
[23:44] *Togas* barcelona has 1 lux
[23:44] *Togas* which means we aren't receiving luxes from GS?
[23:44] *nye* yes
[23:45] *Togas* no imports
[23:45] *BigFree* the road is cut to our capitol
[23:45] *Togas* damn
[23:45] *nye* your trade net to cvapital is cut
[23:45] *BigFree* yep
[23:45] *BigFree* will we get gold in a rioting city and only miss the shields?
[23:45] *nye* funny they left that worker in the south
[23:45] *BigFree* no movements points to get him
[23:45] *Togas* that worker is disbanded
[23:46] *Togas* we are also considering disbanding the galleys
[23:46] *Togas* cut our upkeep down
[23:46] *nye* bf. i am not sure. i think maybe, but we can spare 12 gold
[23:46] *BigFree* cool
[23:46] *nye* that comes first of all
[23:46] *BigFree* dont disband any units Togas
[23:46] *Togas* I'll wait
[23:46] *nye* no!
[23:46] *Arnelos* wha?
[23:46] *nye* do not disband anything
[23:46] *BigFree* maybe the worker
[23:46] *Togas* The King's Surf in the south who'll be captured next turn sees a 2/4 Rider and a 2/4 Ansar
[23:46] *nye* the worker? yes. that is a slave at best
[23:47] *Togas* he'll commit suicide before becoming a slave to Arabia
[23:47] *BigFree* LOL
[23:47] *nye* how many units did they kill?
[23:48] *Togas* we had 2 pikes in Merida
[23:48] *Arnelos* Did anyone talk to Lego about getting gold from them?
[23:48] *Togas* 1 pike in salamanca
[23:48] *Arnelos* it might still be possible
[23:48] *Togas* 1 warrior in cordoba
[23:48] *Arnelos* especially if Lego believes gold is merely for the purpose of bleeing ND and GoW of units
[23:48] *Arnelos* which, frankly, it is
[23:48] *Togas* maybe something in Valencia, but I think it was empty
[23:49] *Togas* no talk with Lego, ZargonX was only on briefly and we were busy with GoW at the time
[23:49] *BigFree* it was empty
[23:49] *Arnelos* d'oh
[23:49] *Arnelos* ZargonX needs to be online more often
[23:49] *Togas* indeed
[23:49] *Arnelos* or have someone wo IS online more often be their ambassador
[23:49] *BigFree* Ok, we need to attack those two Ansars NW of Pamplona
[23:49] *Arnelos* Nimitz was great when he was the Lego ambassador... the guy was always online
[23:50] *Togas* brb
[23:51] *BigFree* nye, did you get a screen shot?
[23:51] *BigFree* http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Big...sLeft110AD.jpg
[23:52] * Arnelos is now known as Arnelos_AWAY
[23:52] *Togas* back
[23:53] *Togas* does anyone think we should delay playing the save tonight?
[23:53] *Arnelos_AWAY* I vote for it
[23:53] * Arnelos_AWAY is now known as Arnelos
[23:54] *Togas* to play or delay?
[23:54] *Arnelos* delay
[23:54] *Togas* do note: I'm in court tomorrow most of the day
[23:54] *Arnelos* I'm going to sign the paperwork for my new apartment tomorrow, but I should be back by evening I hope
[23:54] *Togas* my time to play the save tomorrow will be limited greatly, however we could use the "debating surrender" card to extend our turn a little.
[23:54] *Arnelos* indeed
[23:55] *Togas* BF, what do you think?
[23:55] *BigFree* sure
[23:55] *BigFree* go for it
[23:55] *Togas* play tonight or delay?
[23:55] *BigFree* well
[23:55] *BigFree* I think we can play it
[23:56] *nye* gs would appreciate delay
[23:56] *Togas* all we have to do is move the stack into Pamplona, decide what to do with a few units, end turn.
[23:56] *BigFree* ok, lets delay then
[23:56] *nye* well...
[23:56] *Togas* with that request, we'll delay
[23:56] *nye* what is this talk of a deal with gow?
[23:56] *BigFree* just talk
[23:56] *BigFree* they are offerin gnothing of significance
[23:56] *BigFree* they want you out of bob
[23:56] *Arnelos* NYE - they have offered us to keep 4-6 cities in the south in return for us attacking Gathering Storm... they promise never to bother us again after that...
[23:56] *BigFree* for that they offer to let us live
[23:57] *nye* where did the riders go?
[23:57] *BigFree* thats BS
[23:57] *BigFree* we would have to move some units around to see
[23:57] *Togas* not entirely true, they are offering us the southwest, and their eternal peace with us, etc etc.
[23:57] *BigFree* we cannot see anything
[23:57] *Arnelos* it's not worth it even if they ARE sincere
[23:57] *BigFree* Togas: Do you really believe them?
[23:57] *BigFree* WExactly arenelos
[23:57] *Togas* I don't have much faith, to be honest.
[23:57] *nye* they are dead. they could be nowhere else
[23:58] *BigFree* GS has our undying trust and gratitude
[23:58] *BigFree* They could be inside of any of the captured cities
[23:58] *nye* what is in that stack 4 4 of pamplona?
[23:58] *Togas* 2 riders
[23:58] *nye* *BigFree* They could be inside of any of the captured cities
[23:58] *Togas* sir donegal and sir ghengis
[23:58] *nye* the riders? they could not be
[23:59] *Togas* oh, sorry
[23:59] *nye* they could not move out of the vision in the shot
[23:59] *Togas* I was doing 7 7
[23:59] *Togas* 777
[23:59] *Togas* 4 4 from us is:
[23:59] *BigFree* 4 Pikes 6 Ansars 2 MI
[23:59] *Togas* what he said
[23:59] *nye* 6 ansars, on the mountain?
[23:59] *Togas* yes
[00:00] *BigFree* we could take a lot of shots at them with the Cats
[00:00] *BigFree* 12:4)1
[00:00] *nye* what cities would they leave you with?
[00:00] * Retrieving #milops info...
[00:00] *BigFree* first we need to give them all of our cities

[notyoueither]

[00:01] *nye* oh. well...
[00:01] *BigFree* they give us a token city to be named
[00:01] *BigFree* It was not really an offer
[00:01] *nye* we know how far to trust that, yes?
[00:01] *BigFree* more like a slap
[00:01] *Togas* long story short -- no real details ahve been worked out yet
[00:01] *Togas* we could ask them that question, but we never went that far with it
[00:01] *BigFree* the question is do we string them along or counter attack now?
[00:02] *nye* if you could buy pamp-toledo-barca- and south, gs would consider it
[00:02] * GoofyBandit has joined #milops
[00:02] *BigFree* I say they are trying to buy time to regroup
[00:02] *nye* i think so, bf
[00:02] *BigFree* nye, I would not trust them to follow through
[00:02] *nye* i agree
[00:02] *nye* what is ww in pamp and barca?
[00:02] *BigFree* I say counter attack now and say **** you to the deal
[00:03] *Togas* BF, we could possibly negotiate a means to get them to follow through
[00:03] *BigFree* 57%
[00:03] *Togas* I'm thinking it's anarchy time
[00:03] *nye* 57% say give peace a chance?
[00:03] *BigFree* Togas, do not trust these guys one bit
[00:03] *BigFree* yes nye
[00:03] *Togas* it's not a trust issue, it's a diplomacy issue.
[00:04] *nye* let us think on this for the night
[00:04] *BigFree* sure
[00:04] *BigFree* wait
[00:04] *Togas* Pamplona: 50% too crowded, 50% give peace a chance
[00:04] *BigFree* we can move the spear and Pike closer to get a look at units nera Salamnca
[00:05] *Togas* Barcelona 40% crowded, 60% peace
[00:05] *BigFree* Togas: The numbers change if you have entertainers
[00:05] *nye* the spear would be good
[00:05] *nye* might be able to kill a rider or 2
[00:06] *Togas* moved spear 3.
[00:06] *nye* 6!
[00:06] *Togas* see Sir Panzer (kill him!), Sir Bob, and Sir Aggor in city
[00:06] *BigFree* no
[00:06] *Togas* sorry, I mean 6
[00:06] *Togas* hit the wrong key
[00:06] *BigFree* good
[00:06] *Togas* moved him east
[00:06] *BigFree* good
[00:06] *BigFree* Phew
[00:06] *nye* heheh. calming down now...
[00:06] *BigFree* 12:4)1
[00:07] *Togas* Panzer is 4 of city
[00:07] *nye* you see 3 units in city?
[00:07] *Togas* bob is 2
[00:07] *Togas* Aggor is in city
[00:07] *Togas* who knows how many of his buddies are in there.... HOWEVER
[00:07] * ruby_maser has joined #milops
[00:07] *BigFree* Move the pike 2-3-6 down the road
[00:07] *Togas* GoW did slip in their negotiations with us
[00:07] *nye* hold on...
[00:07] *nye* what did they say?
[00:07] *Togas* Aggie asked us to block off the road to Salamanca, because if GS took it, it would autoraize
[00:08] *nye* heh
[00:08] *Togas* and they said we'd lose a city we'd potentially get back
[00:08] *BigFree* hell
[00:08] *Togas*
[00:08] * GoofyBandit is now known as WhiteBandit
[00:08] *BigFree* we can take it back then
[00:08] *Togas* not sure how many knights in there, though
[00:08] *nye* the rider in the city. what sort of shape?
[00:08] *Togas* however, we do see at least 1 rider in the south
[00:08] *Togas* aggor is 4/5
[00:08] *Togas* the other 2 are 4/4
[00:09] *nye* v and m both have riders
[00:09] * Arnelos is now known as Arnelos_AWAY
[00:09] *nye* could i have a shot of now?
[00:09] *Togas* 2 riders must have taken our 2 southern cities, minimum
[00:09] *BigFree* 4 Lets take back Salmanca with our Knights then move the stack outside Pamplona there
[00:09] *Togas* add to that fact that they also took a worker...
[00:10] *Togas* add to that at least 2 riders fighting our 2 pikes in Merida
[00:10] *nye* bf. why not hold pamplona?
[00:10] *BigFree* we can do both
[00:10] *nye* how?
[00:10] *nye* 8 ansars
[00:10] *Togas* at most, they have 3 riders in salamanca
[00:10] *Togas* most likely less
[00:10] *Togas* 6 ansars
[00:11] *nye* 6 and 2 more, right?
[00:11] *Togas* the other 2 are in the deep south
[00:11] *nye* what is that at pamp 7 7 7?
[00:11] *Togas* one is south of cordoba, the other unsure
[00:11] *Togas* 2 riders
[00:11] *BigFree* nye, we have 33 units in or around Pamplona
[00:11] *nye* ****. there they wnet
[00:11] *nye* ok. 6 ansars and 2 riders
[00:11] *nye* bf. including cats?
[00:11] *BigFree* yes
[00:11] *Togas* including cats
[00:12] *nye* so you have 24 or 25 combat
[00:12] *BigFree* yes
[00:12] *nye* could you run down for me?
[00:12] *BigFree* ok
[00:12] *BigFree* on emin
[00:12] *nye* brb
[00:13] *Togas* salamanca is on hills + walls
[00:14] *nye* 6 def for riders
[00:14] * Togas sighs
[00:15] *nye* i hear you. how many turns to road at pamp 9 6 6?
[00:15] *Togas* 2 turns
[00:16] *nye* you have lux and resources in 2 turns
[00:16] *BigFree* 8 Cats 10 Pikes 4 Knights 7 MI's
[00:16] *BigFree* 4 were workers
[00:16] *BigFree* I forgot about those
[00:17] *nye* how many at full strngth?
[00:17] *BigFree* 21 offensive units
[00:17] *nye* well... 10p and 11 offensive
[00:18] *BigFree* 4 units missing 2 or more pips 2 units missing on epip
[00:18] *nye* you have a barracks in pamplona?
[00:19] *BigFree* Togas, this is a good time to say that its ok for GS (or at least nye) to look at our save......
[00:19] *BigFree* yes, nye
[00:19] *nye* well...
[00:20] *nye* 10 pikes and 4 knights will not be pleasant for anyont to chew through
[00:20] *Togas* I don't think we need to go that far. Screens and reports should be fine.
[00:20] *nye* it is fine
[00:20] *BigFree* It just makes the work for nye easier
[00:20] *nye* the ansars are set up to jump down, kill, and jump back
[00:20] *BigFree* this take a lot of his time
[00:21] *nye* what they do not factor, is that if they jump down and attack, then retreat, they are stuck in the open
[00:21] *nye* knight bait
[00:21] *BigFree* 12:4)1
[00:21] *BigFree* which direction would they retreat to?
[00:21] *nye* the same tile
[00:22] *BigFree* is there a formula for that?
[00:22] *Togas* wouldn't they just retreat back up the mnt?
[00:22] *nye* retreat from attacking is live, but stuck
[00:22] *nye* 1mp to advance
[00:22] *nye* 1mp to attack
[00:22] *Togas* ah
[00:22] *nye* 1mp to 'retreat' from the attack
[00:22] *BigFree* so they would be on the grasslands
[00:22] *nye* leaving them in the open tile
[00:22] *Togas* ND would then have to bring units down from the mtn to protect them, which we nail with cats, then counter punch
[00:23] *BigFree* after the first one did that, they would change tactics
[00:23] *nye* yes
[00:23] *nye* with 8 or 9 cats...
[00:23] *nye* we need to think on this
[00:23] *nye* but if they got unlucky....
[00:23] *nye* there are also the 5 or 10 gs knights in the area
[00:24] *BigFree* Ok, here's this: Do we attack the Ansars in range now? Or do we wait to attack only units outside of our city?
[00:24] *Togas* this could get very interesting...
[00:24] *nye* pamplona could be very expensive for them, indeed
[00:24] *BigFree* that is why they are trying to give a deal
[00:25] *Togas* Save will not be played tonight. Will play tomorrow early evening
[00:25] *BigFree* ok
[00:25] *Togas* should give GS time to discuss and advise
[00:25] *nye* and we are already forted on the tile they need to deny us
[00:25] *BigFree* Togas, move the Pike SE of Vigo 2-3-6
[00:25] *Togas* I also need advise on if we should go Monarchy
[00:26] * Arnelos_AWAY is now known as Arnelos
[00:26] *Togas* BF, go ahead and move him, I just closed my civ. Am tending to a few things before sleep
[00:26] *BigFree* And we can count on getting at leat 12 gold and NM back form GS?
[00:26] *BigFree* ok Togas
[00:26] *nye* how high the lux slider to get pamp and barca back in order?
[00:26] *Arnelos* 12does WW work in PtW?
[00:26] *nye* yes. now it does
[00:26] *nye* sine 1.21
[00:26] *Arnelos* excellent....
[00:27] *nye* not really...
[00:27] *BigFree* Ok, moved the pike 2-3-6 and see two more GoW Rider's
[00:27] *nye* can i have a shot as of now?
[00:27] *BigFree* one inside of Merida
[00:27] *BigFree* sure
[00:27] *BigFree* one min
[00:28] *Arnelos* in that case...not only should we switch to monarchy, but we should remain at war with GoW and ND indefinately, to force them into higher degrees of anarchy in their GA... perhaps even force them to swtich govs eventually... eventually force them to stay out of Republic/Democracy indefinately
[00:28] *nye* email is good
[00:28] *nye* that is a plan, arne
[00:28] *Togas* monarchy is looking like a good option. We can change between turns
[00:28] *nye* ahhh. religious. damn that is fine
[00:28] *Arnelos* as long as there is 1 RP city anywhere on the board and RP is at war with ND and GoW, they'll have happiness problems in Rep/Dem forever
[00:28] *ruby_maser* question: could gaining control of another civ's Great Wonder possibly trigger a GA for you?
[00:29] *nye* ruby.. i think yes
[00:29] *nye* i can't remeber
[00:29] *BigFree* http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Big...110ADPart2.jpg
[00:30] *BigFree* nye, not til you build another wonder
[00:30] *ruby_maser* hmmm, just a thought
[00:30] *BigFree* it will satify one requirement, but the trigger to check if you have a wonder is not done till you actually build one
[00:30] *nye* i know why no buildings disbanded
[00:31] *nye* disorder. it protected the cities
[00:31] *BigFree* so if you capture a wonder that satifies one of your traits, then you build another to satify another, the game will check to see if you have two wonders to satify those requirtements...then bingo, GA!
[00:31] *nye* i think it may be that way
[00:31] *ruby_maser* some Wonders satify both traits
[00:32] *nye* i remember some discussion of this sometime
[00:32] *BigFree* yes, butthe game wont chack till you build one
[00:32] *Togas* anyhow, are there any other issues to discuss?
[00:32] *BigFree* well
[00:32] *BigFree* we need to test to see if GS giving us gold during its turn will stavbe off the disbanding of units
[00:33] *nye* i do not think so. take your time with this one. important
[00:33] *nye* bigfree. good idea. i am sure it will
[00:33] *BigFree* thanks for your help nye
[00:33] *nye* but anarcy would too
[00:33] *Arnelos* yes, thanks again
[00:33] *Togas* diplomacy happens before it checks on gpt
[00:33] *nye* np. i am helping myself
[00:33] *BigFree* would Monarchy be a good idea
[00:33] *Arnelos* true... anarchy would save our units as well, wouldn't it
[00:33] *nye* possisbly
[00:34] *Togas* I think anarchy = free units
[00:34] *BigFree* yes
[00:34] *nye* you are not worried about research now
[00:34] *Togas* city structures free?
[00:34] *BigFree* there's no upkeep in anarchy
[00:34] *ruby_maser* its only 1 turn of anarchy with us though
[00:34] *nye* how much do you gain by mps?
[00:34] *nye* how much ww do you lose?
[00:34] *BigFree* true
[00:34] *nye* how many commerce do you lose?
[00:34] *BigFree* we chave to check the numbers
[00:34] *nye* yes
[00:34] *Togas* BF, check to see where we need to put the lux slider
[00:34] *BigFree* ok
[00:35] *Togas* however, our WW is only going to get worse
[00:35] *Togas* eventually we will have to switch
[00:35] *nye* true
[00:35] *nye* but where the lux now?
[00:35] *BigFree* Lux slider has no affect
[00:35] *Arnelos* [rp] The King is trying to disband the Parliament! [/rp]
[00:35] *BigFree* all the way to 100%
[00:35] *nye* what?
[00:36] *BigFree* I think because of disorder
[00:36] *nye* you do not see people turning content and happy?
[00:36] *BigFree* nope none at all
[00:36] *Togas* you should see happy people in f1 screen
[00:36] *Togas* as you adjust slider
[00:36] *nye* yopu could stay in anarchy....
[00:36] *nye* 0 upkeep
[00:36] *Togas* true
[00:36] *Togas*
[00:36] *Togas* just no new units built at all
[00:36] *nye* yes
[00:36] *Arnelos* that's better than losing them
[00:37] *Togas* it is
[00:37] *Arnelos* or saping more money from GS
[00:37] *BigFree* I think anarchy is the anser until we get NM and possible Toledo back
[00:37] *ruby_maser* by picking a government and then revolting again?
[00:37] *Arnelos* ruby - correct
[00:37] *BigFree* We pick Monarchy next time
[00:37] *nye* ruby, yes
[00:37] *Arnelos* we just can't decide
[00:37] *Togas* but if GS can afford to give us cash, I'd like to get a few new pikes build.... we need to replace the losses
[00:37] *Arnelos* this could be GREAT for public roleplay posts
[00:37] *nye* one moment... let me think
[00:38] *nye* do you have spare food in both cities?
[00:40] *nye* can you get them in control with entertainers?
[00:40] *nye* without dropping pop?
[00:40] *Togas* bf?
[00:41] *BigFree* let me check
[00:42] *BigFree* yes
[00:42] *nye* what would the sit be in both?
[00:43] *BigFree* we make 16 food in Pamplona with two entertainers and we need 14
[00:43] *nye* does pamp have walls?
[00:44] *nye* does it have food in the bin?
[00:44] *BigFree* we make 10 food in Barcelona with 3 entertainers and we need 12 but we have a full box
[00:44] *BigFree* Pamp has no walls
[00:45] *nye* ok. in two turns you get 2 lux back
[00:45] *nye* does pamp have food in the bin?
[00:45] *BigFree* Pamps has 3/4 food box
[00:45] *nye* yay!\
[00:45] *BigFree* so we have excess food
[00:45] *nye* use entertainers to get you in order
[00:45] *BigFree* we need two in Pamp and 3 in Barcelona
[00:45] *nye* play with the slider next turn
[00:45] *BigFree* yes
[00:46] *nye* if the slider is not knid, then switch to anarchy then to monarchy
[00:46] *nye* actulaly...
[00:46] *nye* go into anarchy now
[00:46] *nye* come out into republic
[00:46] *nye* then play with the slider
[00:47] *nye* then go into anarchy again if it does not look good
[00:47] *BigFree* my bad, we need 3 enetertainers in each city
[00:47] *nye* that should get you past maintenance
[00:47] *BigFree* yes
[00:47] *nye* we will send gold anyway, just in case
[00:48] *nye* but park the cities with ent to make sure
[00:48] *BigFree* OK, nye, maximising the gold and food in each city and allowing for entertainers...we are at -14 gpt after dibanding the one worker.
[00:48] *nye* ok
[00:48] *BigFree* we need that as a minimum
[00:48] *nye* call it 20
[00:48] *BigFree* or we go to anarchy this turn
[00:49] *BigFree* upkeep drops to 0
[00:49] *nye* you should go to anarch anyway. neither city builds anything next turn
[00:49] *BigFree* then we come out next turn in Monarchy
[00:49] *BigFree* I think so too
[00:49] *nye* you can come out in repub, and test the slider
[00:49] *BigFree* If Monarchy does not look good next turn, we go back to anarchy
[00:49] *nye* if it is not good, then back into anarchy to come out monarchy
[00:50] *nye* or what you said
[00:50] *BigFree* ok, republic first, then Monarchy
[00:50] *BigFree* but I think we have beter shot at Monarchy
[00:50] *BigFree* since WW was put back in
[00:50] *nye* in 18 hours, someone should be able to sim monarchy over republic
[00:50] *BigFree* I can
[00:51] *BigFree* Ok, so this turn we go to anarchy
[00:51] *nye* yes
[00:51] *nye* what time did you get the save?
[00:51] *BigFree* then we try either Republic or Monarchy based on Sim I will do
[00:52] *BigFree* about 12 PM EST
[00:52] *nye* do you mind going over?
[00:52] *BigFree* not at all
[00:52] *BigFree* is someone going to spank us over it...12:4P1
[00:52] *nye* well... this is a turn for it if ever i saw one
[00:52] *BigFree* yes
[00:53] *BigFree* we lost like 4 cities in one turn
[00:53] *BigFree* 5
[00:53] *nye* you know... we really ****ed up
[00:53] *BigFree* they were meek cities though
[00:53] *BigFree* why?
[00:53] *nye* we are far from perfect that some people expect
[00:54] *nye* a couple of turns ago...
[00:54] *nye* we did not block toledo 2
[00:54] *nye* if this games goes south. call it right there on that move
[00:54] *BigFree* yes, they would have had to go through jungle then
[00:55] *nye* no. they could have gone mountain, then hill
[00:55] *BigFree* I believe we can recover
[00:55] *Togas* well, GoW avoiding GS is a decision they're going to regret.
[00:55] *nye* but they would have been delayed, and we would have had better shots at them
[00:55] *Togas* every turn they ignore GS gives GS more troops
[00:55] *nye* that we did not count on, togas
[00:55] *nye* that they would be too chicken **** to fight
[00:55] *BigFree* no kidding
[00:55] *Togas* really surprised me
[00:56] *BigFree* Vox all over again
[00:56] *Togas* because ND alone can't take Pamplona
[00:56] *BigFree* not anytime soon anyways
[00:56] *Togas* but if they both combine to take it, that's their entire offensive force
[00:56] *nye* yes. i think so
[00:56] *nye* we will be asking a lot of the valient spanish
[00:57] *Togas* we're prepared for a long and brutal siege
[00:57] *nye* but holding pamplona is the best thing you could do for both of us
[00:58] *nye* btw...
[00:58] *Togas* it's going to be bloody, and we'll need GS knights to help our knights kill the enemy's wounded
[00:58] *nye* walls could be good
[00:58] *Togas* agreed
[00:58] *nye* togas, agreed
[00:58] *Togas* if we weren't in revolt this turn (and we had gold) we'd rush them
[00:58] *nye* there are 5 knights there now, and another 5 near
[00:58] *Togas* this could be one very, VERY big battle
[00:58] *nye* how many shileds towards a pike?
[00:59] *Togas* if GoW is willing to actually fight
[00:59] *nye* they may just sit back and leave you alone
[00:59] *BigFree* 20
[00:59] *nye* the wall would complete if you switch
[00:59] *Togas* that's a wall
[00:59] *nye* but you can't switch before you go to 6 pop. never mind
[01:00] *nye* the bug is gone, anyway
[01:00] *nye* you only get the walls at 6 pop
[01:00] *nye* btw, did you guys catch that we completed the Great Wall?
[01:00] *Togas* we did
[01:01] *Arnelos* awesome
[01:01] *Togas* ok, maybe not all of us did
[01:01] *nye* we are hoping GoW did not and tests a city on a hill with walls and 3 or 4 pike
[01:01] *Arnelos* I didn't open the save
[01:01] *nye* i don;t think you get notices of it in pbem
[01:01] *Togas* anyhow, I need to sleep.
[01:01] *nye* have to keep watch on f7
[01:01] *Arnelos* ah
[01:01] *Togas* PLEASE continue to debate and discuss in chat tomorrow
[01:02] *nye* g'night, my leige
[01:02] *Togas* I'll be in court most of the day
[01:02] *Togas* when I return early evening, we'll do this thing.
[01:02] *Togas*
[01:02] *Togas* goodnight to you all.
[01:02] *Arnelos* cya
[01:02] * Togas has quit IRC (Quit: )
[01:03] *nye* well, there is not much more.
[01:03] *nye* the sooner i post this, the more the euros have to work with
[01:04] *nye* i could be wrong on a point or two
[01:04] *nye* so i will take my leave
[01:04] *Arnelos* ok, cya
Session Close: Fri Aug 15 01:04:28 2003

[notyoueither]

I guess nothing got sold because both their cities were in disorder.

Last turn, they had to sell a barracks for 2 gold to afford to upgrade a spear.

This turn they were expecting a city or two to come back to them. Neither one was offered.

If I were RP I would wonder right about now. I'm on GS, and I'm wondering just what is going on, to be honest. Has this been intentional?

[alva]

I don't think and certainly do not hope so..

The changeover from Nathan to Shiber is just more difficult then anticipated I guess. Perhaps you should play the turns for now, afterall you are used of playing them (having some kind of check-board while doing them etc. )

[Harovan]

I think a return to the old style turn threads is in order. Not with detailed orders as it was, but with general directives.

- The thread shall be opened right after sending the previous turn
- It has five sections: General info, Military, Economy, Diplomacy, Additional info. One or more of them may be empty
- If negotiations are made, the immediate results shall be edited in the first post of this thread.
- Whoever plays the turn, shall consider all what is in this post.

It is next to impossible, at least for a member with an average amount of time to spend, to follow every single diplomatic or strategic thread. So let's again post their quintessence in the turn thread.

We had that system, it has proven to be effective. Let's return to it, of course with less accurate economic orders.

[Shiber]

It's my fault.
I support Sir Ralph's proposal to return to the previous format in order to help me avoid my own stupidity and forgetfulness.
I'll go and apologize personally to Togas when I find him on IRC.

[Shiber]

and maybe some Post-It notes will help.
I'll try them next turn.

[zeit]

I agree on the system, should be reinstated to prevent such mistakes in the future.

We have more pressing matters now: what should RP do this turn? According to simple math, GoW has 4 riders at the most inside S, more likely 3 riders- should RP risk a counter attack on S with their 4 knights? they'll likely lose that fight, against a 100% defense bonus enhanced riders. OTOH, if they lose the win- that almost means the GoW menace is gone- I don't think GoW will attack again. But that ND stack is a problem- 6 ansars will be able to attack either S if it is rataken, or P. If we wait with any counter atatck, that means we'll have to face 8 (or 9) healthy riders concentrated where they are needed...

We also have to decide how their retreating stack goes about- launch a volley at those ND invaders?

The Cats should fire at the arab stack, while covered with the pikes from the stack, the offensive force should go and rest in P, of course. RP should NOT launch a counter attack at S, because it has low chances of success, and it also means both GoW and ND can attack it on their next turn, meaning another city to guard, on the expense of P. RP should put on a mask and keep talking to GoW, they won't attack anyway in the next two turns or so- not before their riders get some rest.
I'm still not sure whether RP should send their knights against those two riders, or maybe we should do it.

Any ideas? we sure as hell need some now...

[Arrian]

Damn what a mess.

Losing that city just SW of Pamp is BRUTAL! Walls on hills! ****.

I'd like to make a request: can we bring over a couple of GS workers, please? We need to repair some roads.

For the immediate turn, I don't see much alternative to having RP turtle up. Counterattack just doesn't look viable.

Meanwhile, I'd like to get GS knights on Valencia 8-8, but first I need to know what we've got left, and what shape they're in.

Damn. NYE, I agree with you, by the way. This game might have been lost in our failure to block Toledo2. Hopefully not... let's see if we can salvage. Wars are lost by those who make the fewest mistakes, right? Well, we made one. Now we have to hope GoW/ND make a couple.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Can our galleys be brought to bear to help re-take Valencia (though GoW might just abandon it and run away, which would suck).

-Arrian

[zeit]

Arrian- we have only two knights there, each with 2hp.

I think RP should move the Cats with pikes to P4, and take a few shots at ND's stack, attacking the two riders is optional, but we can kiss any survivors goodbye- so it might not be worth it.

Not much for them to do besides that, On our turn, I suggest we move the slowmovers stack near B 4, and let the knights heal for a turn on the hills. Let us leave Valencia Murcia and Cordoba for now- and concentrated where we could destroy GoW's forces- near Salamanca and Pamplona.

[Arrian]

Well then, no counterattack is possible.

Damn those 3-move units!

-Arrian