Turn 134, 110 AD

[zeit]

Not at all- I wasn't aware of the lux problem, now that you mention it- if it is in fact a problem (forcing us to use the slider), we should accept it, of course, but still stage our defense at B4...

I too share your view that they will not attack... especially not with us on the hill with pikes and knights.
They'll head south- and that will set the new RP borders- P to the west, NM to the east, T to the north and B to the SE- as for the other towns- I don't think we could hold them for much longer.

[Shiber]

Looking at the save, we are holding fine without silks, and we can hold up until RP reconnects the road, even if they lose ivory as well.

[DeepO]

nye, I don't understand. We can assume that GoW is going to cut the roads South after they passed, so that we can't attack the 3 cities they take immediately, and they have time to heal their riders we might damage this turn. In that case, we will lose spices and ivory... the only thing we will keep is silk. It doesn't matter whether RP or we hold the city; as long as we(GS+RP) keep it from gfalling in GoW's hand. And, after attacking of our knights, GoW will not attack 4 pikes+3MI+leftover knights. Whether Barcelona is defended with a pike or not doesn't make a difference. Plus, in case we even feel threatened, our slowmover reinforcements to the area would be position right next to it, so that even with all the luck in the world we can still take the city back immediately, if neccesary.

I see no reason to accept the city (as the silk makes no difference if any of us keeps the city), while there are a number of advantages to let RP keep it.
- They will get 15 gpt from it. (we get what, 3?)
- they keep a good production center
- they won't lose the already accumulated shields, and build another pike? next turn
- Lego won't like it if we gain another city
- GoW will be baited to the city, without a real possibility to take it.
- and finally, it will ensure RP's existence if the RNG gods don't favor them. In theory, they can be destroyed next turn: all their southern cities are prone to attacks from GoW or ND (most will fall). If ND gets some major force conquering Pamplona, the only city where they can still live on is Barcelona. Toledo and NM will only be in their possession next turn, they will have to get to that turn to receive them.

DeepO

[Arrian]

I say take the city and defend it.

GoW appears gunshy, and if they decide to change that all of a sudden, we can finally get those Riders engaged!

-Arrian

[Arrian]

All:

Please see the thread regarding Lego & our tech deal, there is a proposed diplomatic PM in there (written by moi) I want people to read and comment upon. So far only a few have discussed even the intent behind the message.

Thanks,

-Arrian

[zeit]

Arrian- we could engage the riders this turn with 5 knights, and the next turn, if they move towards B, with the Med. Infs as well- accepting the city this turn doesn't help at all- not with encouraging GoW to attack, and not with objective odds of success (Our units on the hills have better odds anyway). I still can't see any good reason to take it: It won't encourage GoW to attack, and if it will they'll attack having better odds, OTOH, it will mean one less pike to defend our knights from counter-attack (and it was decided against moving one knight to block P99 mountain when we the risk to an attack on P69 was low...).
Just look at the list DeepO made to see how accepting the city hurts the war effort.

[Arrian]

Hmm...

Ok, then why is RP gifting it? I assume they felt they couldn't defend it.

But DeepO's reasoning does make some sense...

Damn, it's hard to get a feel for this war, what with the coordination between two teams. During the war of Voxian aggression, things were more straightforward.

-Arrian

[Shiber]

RP must have thought that we'd want to defend from Barcelona, but they were unaware that we can do much better without it if we defend from B4.

[zeit]

Gifting us a city is the best thing RP could do- they didn't have time to go through all our option, and they shouldn't trouble themselves with our plans unless its necessary- by gifting a city which is in risk and we can defend they save themselves trouble since they know we're the ones handling the defense anyway...

As for the feel of the war: We get a chance to have a better picture of it- because we hear from RP and in the chats we have we share our feeling about how the war progresses, but I agree that this war is not simple as the Voxian one: Vox had a distinct border which they crossed with large slow forces, and the front moved on one major axis- between the Voxian core and ours. In this one, the front keeps changing location, and not on one axis- add to that the 2v2 factor, and you do get a more difficult conflict to follow.

[Shiber]

We have to play the turn now. There's little time left.
Can I reject Barcelona?
Can I attack GoW's stack of riders on flats with our knights?

[zeit]

Go ahead with the attack- I also think we have a widespread agreement regarding barcelona.

[notyoueither]

DeepO, Barca will be disconnected with Pamplona, their capital. They will therefore be unable to trade us the silk, no?

So, we will lose the silk, as well as the other luxes that they no longer have a connected port to trade to us.

What matter does it make if Barca is in our hands or theirs if GoW cannot take it? The difference is we keep the silk.

[notyoueither]

Go ahead and refuse it. If GoW can't take it and IF we do not need the lux, then it will net more taxes for RP. There is also a unit about to complete there I believe.

[Shiber]

We are already silk-less, and we're doing fine in all our large cities. We can afford to wait a few turns until RP reconnects the road to Pamplona (given that it'll still be there by the time that the road is reconnected).
I'm going to refuse the city.

[Arrian]

Sounds good.

Shall we hit the Rider stack? Will our knights that win will be exposed to counterattack?

-Arrian