Turn 132, 70 AD

[notyoueither]

[22:02] *Aeson* oops.. it doesn't load with the GOTM 'mod' in place
[22:02] *nbarclay* I should have you switched in both the turn mailing list and the screenshot mailing list now. Let me know if there's a problem.
[22:02] *Aeson* ok.. just recieved the save btw
[22:03] *Aeson* at least the 'mod' will keep me from screwing up with the save like I did in the intersite game
[22:03] *nbarclay* There's a compatibility problem between the latest version of the GOTM mod and this game?
[22:04] *Aeson* this is 1.21f right?
[22:04] *nbarclay* Yes.
[22:04] *nbarclay* You're still running 1.14 for that?
[22:04] *Aeson* nope
[22:04] *Aeson* hmmm
[22:04] *Aeson* maybe it's a problem with the Civ III 1.29f modifications
[22:05] *Aeson* It gets the ICON_Internet missing error
[22:05] *Aeson* so thats probably it
[22:05] *Aeson* I was checking the 1.29f games earlier today
[22:08] *Aeson* what's the save password again/
[22:08] *Aeson* ?
[22:08] *nbarclay* Do we want to switch Tornado to a knight instead of having it finish a MedInf next turn? (It produces 10 shields per turn.)
[22:09] *nbarclay* Remember the poem NYE used for his sig?
[22:09] *Aeson* yes, not perfectly
[22:09] *nbarclay* (Seeing if I can give you enough of a hint that you'll remember the password).
[22:09] *nbarclay* One...
[22:10] *Aeson* sorry, drawing a blank
[22:10] *nye* call me sauron
[22:10] *Aeson* I have a terrible memory for passwords and names
[22:10] *nbarclay* One civ To Rule them all. (Just take the capitalized part and run it together as a single word.)
[22:11] *nbarclay* a single word.
[22:11] *nye* OneToRule
[22:11] *Aeson* thanks!
[22:11] *Aeson* think I got it now
[22:12] *Aeson* you know, former Voxland is funnier in the save than the screenshots...
[22:13] *nbarclay* It'sHow do you mean?
[22:13] *nbarclay* How do you mean?
[22:15] *Aeson* just all those units guarding the shore
[22:15] *Aeson*
[22:15] *Aeson* guess it was just weird cause I've never even considered such a thing in SP
[22:18] *nbarclay* Not even in the Total, Eternal, Forever War?
[22:18] *nbarclay* Most of the time, such tactics aren't necessary in SP.
[22:18] *Aeson* didn't have anywhere near enough units
[22:18] *nbarclay* Ah.
[22:19] *Aeson* Rome on Deity, with the Iroquois backing them... just barely was able to take them out
[22:19] *Aeson* then I was stuck with about 12 Knights trying to guard the whole continent from Cavalry landings
[22:19] *nbarclay* Sir Ralph has a blockade set up on Conqueror/OPD's former lands in the GS3 game, which I find really annoying.
[22:20] *nbarclay* (Then again, I've been doing the same thing to his units. )
[22:20] *Aeson* haha
[22:20] *nbarclay* Of course now that I have my Sipahi and his best units are pikes and riders, I'm a lot more willing to let him land if he wants to.
[22:21] *nbarclay* (I got lucky in the early game, and did a pretty good job leveraging that luck.)
[22:22] *nbarclay* What will really be nice is if we have vet galleys able to threaten to sink GoW ships that threaten to land.
[22:23] *nbarclay* But by the time that happens, if Lego decides to side with GoW, they'll be able to upgrade to caravels (after building/rushing a harbor, of course).
[22:24] *Aeson* yah, but if we have caravels too, we could just set up blockades
[22:24] *Aeson* need to take out port Isolation though... badly
[22:25] *Aeson* when a 2 movement unit moves out of a Galley onto land (plains/grass/desert) it doesn't have any movement left right?
[22:28] *Aeson* If we take santa ana 1 off being worked by santa ana, and then use that tile with blizzard, we can get blizzard up to 5 shields per turn (it's at 4)
[22:28] *Aeson* then santa ana can use dissidentville 3 and have it's 2 shields still
[22:30] *Aeson* also, Dissidentville would be at +5 food per turn if we use the fish. It usually pays off in the long run to emphasize growth
[22:31] *nbarclay* Good catch on Dissidentville and the fish. I wasn't watching that it grew this turn.
[22:32] *nbarclay* I mined SA 7 and moved SA's worker there, getting Blizzard its extra shield.
[22:32] *nbarclay* (SA7 is also bonus grassland.)
[22:33] *Aeson* oh yah, we finish the mine there (I didn't do anything with the workers yet)
[22:34] *nbarclay* Any thoughts on what to do with the workers at SS9?
[22:34] *Aeson* oh, Hurricane stays above 15 shields per turn if we give a fur tile to EotS
[22:35] *nbarclay* I'm trying to keep Sandstorm's growth rate up as a settler pump.
[22:35] *Aeson* and we can give another plains to SS as well
[22:36] *Aeson* well, we can do that the other way around
[22:36] *nbarclay* Right now I have two irrigated furs switched from Hurricane to Sandstorm.
[22:36] *Aeson* ah, ok
[22:37] *nbarclay* Next turn I'll give one back to Hurricane since SS can operate in a 6/4 pattern for a two-turn growth rate.
[22:37] * Aeson nods
[22:38] *nbarclay* (At the moment, Hurricane is at 14 shields after waste, but it build a bit more than half a galley this turn.)
[22:38] *nbarclay* built
[22:39] *Aeson* ok, looks good
[22:39] *Aeson* Think we might want to consider building outposts on mountains with Workers soon?
[22:40] *nbarclay* Do outposts interfere with landing troops on a tile?
[22:40] *Aeson* they block amphibious landings don't they?
[22:40] *Aeson* I think so
[22:41] *Aeson* would have to test to make sure
[22:42] *nbarclay* We probably want to test before we consider it.
[22:42] *Aeson* aye
[22:42] *nbarclay* And in any case, there's a lot of work left for our workers to do.
[22:43] *Aeson* the mountain up north may be a good target regardless... lets us see the other side of port isolation
[22:43] *nbarclay* Especially if RP's infrastructure gets ripped up and they need our help rebuilding it.
[22:44] *Aeson* funny thing is, we probably have more workers than any two of the bob civs
[22:44] *Aeson* maybe all 3 put together
[22:44] *nbarclay* That would also reduce the number of units we need permanently stationed to guard against landings, since GoW would have less room to hide in the Fog of War.
[22:45] *nbarclay* ("That" referring to the outpost)
[22:45] *Aeson* yah
[22:46] *Aeson* which would really help our upkeep costs (especially if Lego joins in)
[22:46] *Aeson* oops, read that wrong... if they block landings
[22:47] *Aeson* I'm going to test it, brb
[22:47] *nbarclay* Yes, if there's a way to block landings without paying upkeep, that could indeed prove useful.
[22:49] *Aeson* "Only Marine units can attack from the sea."
[22:49] *Aeson* they block amphibious landings
[22:49] *nbarclay* Fantastic!
[22:50] *Aeson* I can see the PTWDG Forum rantings now...
[22:50] *nbarclay* The only problem is, we'd need a truly enormous number of them to protect our entire continent.
[22:51] *Aeson* yah, but it does cut down on the number of places we have to guard
[22:51] *nbarclay* Definitely.
[22:51] *Aeson* We can set Dissidentville up as a 2 turn worker factory right?
[22:52] *nbarclay* With a granary, that should be possible.
[22:52] *nbarclay* And with enough priority on food tiles, Sandstorm can be a 2-turn worker factory.
[22:53] *nbarclay* But we probably want some settlers on standby in case key RP cities (especially ones with luxuries) get razed.
[22:54] *Aeson* yah
[22:54] *Aeson* but maybe we should start the Dissidentville granary now?
[22:54] *nbarclay* Production switched. We can always switch it back if we change our minds.
[22:55] *nbarclay* Although actually, only for another few turns if I do what I'm thinking of doing, which is use a forest chop to help speed it up.
[22:57] *Aeson* yah
[22:57] *nbarclay* (Depending on what we'd want to switch it to.)
[22:57] *Aeson* not sure if we need the chop
[22:58] *nbarclay* Depends on the timing, I guess.
[22:58] *Aeson* yah
[22:58] *Aeson* actually it looks like it would finish the turn before growing to size 5 if we do the chop
[22:59] *Aeson* er... 2 turns before
[22:59] *Aeson* or the same turn without... so the chop would be worthwhile
[23:00] *nbarclay* Okay. I'll start a worker on it in a couple turns.
[23:03] *Aeson* 15, 16, 17, 20(size 3, 3 production), 23, 26, 29, 33 (size 4, 4 production), 37, 41, 45, 50 (size 5, 5 production)
[23:04] *Aeson* my counting was off, can't beat the size 5, beat the size 6 though
[23:06] *Aeson* 55, 60 (finished, Worker), 5, 11 (size 6, 5 production?, Worker, size 5)
[23:07] *nbarclay* Keep in mind that if Monsoon is not working the mined iron tile on turns Dissidentville grows, Dissidentville gets that tile's production instead of the production for the tile it will normally be using in its new size.
[23:07] *Aeson* if we don't do the chop, the first worker would be built when we reach size 7 threshhold, and it doesn't work
[23:07] * Aeson nods
[23:08] *Aeson* if we get it 2-3 times, it should let us beat size 5
[23:08] *nbarclay* I'm also not quite sure exactly when corruption kicks in.
[23:08] *Aeson* I was using the commerce to see where the levels are at
[23:08] *nbarclay* Ah.
[23:10] *Aeson* 6/3 6/2 5/2 4/2 3/2...
[23:11] *Aeson* 3/1 2/1 1/1
[23:13] *Aeson* so at size 5 we would be able to get 5 shields with 5 food surplus
[23:14] *nbarclay* Come to think of it, tile allocation between Dissidentville and Santa Ana would also have a bearing on when the granary finishes.
[23:14] *nbarclay* There are two bonus grasslands within reach of both cities.
[23:15] *Aeson* yah, we need to use both the bonus in D
[23:16] *Aeson* hopefully we uncover another one in the 2 reachable jungles from D
[23:16] *nbarclay* Yes.
[23:17] *Aeson* we could even rush a temple if we uncover a bonus grassland under the forest if it comes to that
[23:17] *nbarclay* Either rush or just put the city in a production mode for a few turns.
[23:18] *nbarclay* That would depend on our other priorities at the time, probably.
[23:18] *Aeson* and Inchon doesn't need it's bg (except for growth purposes) for a while too
[23:18] *Aeson* so SA could use it for a few turns in a pinch
[23:19] *Aeson* since Inchon isn't doing much good growing until it has a harbor
[23:19] *nbarclay* Inchoff, you mean?
[23:19] *Aeson* ack... yah
[23:19] *Aeson* and they have a grassland in 5 turns
[23:19] *Aeson*
[23:19] *nbarclay* Inchoff has a temple already. That puts four grasslands in its reach once it expands.
[23:20] *nbarclay* Plus the iron mountian.
[23:21] *Aeson* 2 turns ont he border expansion
[23:21] *nbarclay* In fact, once the mine at WoC3 is finished, Inchoff should be up to two shields per turn if I remember right, so the bonus grassland will be relevant to it.
[23:21] *nbarclay* (Part of the time, anyhow.)
[23:21] *Aeson* looks like it will work out well, where inchoff can move to the new grassland by the time D needs theirs back
[23:22] *nbarclay* Any thoughts regarding the workers at Sandstorm 9?
[23:22] *Aeson* oh yah, I keep forgetting we are mining still
[23:23] *Aeson* maybe just start roading those mountains
[23:23] *Aeson* if Lego gets Navigation in roughly 12 turns... we'll want everything on our coasts roaded
[23:23] *nbarclay* Probably true.
[23:24] *nbarclay* Just one of them had movement left. Oh well.
[23:25] *Aeson* have you loaded up the galleys yet?
[23:27] *nbarclay* Just finished.
[23:27] *Aeson* ok, was probably a bad idea anyways
[23:27] *Aeson* was thinking we might want to send that elite WC along soon
[23:27] *Aeson* use it to clean up wounded ansars/med inf
[23:28] *Aeson* unless we upgraded it?
[23:28] *nbarclay* Not yet. It's the only southern WC or horseman I didn't upgrade.
[23:28] *Aeson* how much are we sending to RP
[23:28] *nbarclay* gold?
[23:29] *Aeson* they have 4 Horses... and should have 100g
[23:29] *Aeson* yes
[23:29] *nbarclay* I'll probably go ahead and send them 240 just to make absolutely sure. We can ask for the change back.
[23:29] *Aeson* sounds good
[23:30] *Aeson* if we sent 238 we could rush that Galley up north like you were thinking
[23:31] *nbarclay* Before I do that, any thoghts on whether to let Tornado finish a MedInf or switch it to a knight? (10 shields per turn)
[23:32] *nbarclay* I'm starting to think a shortage of fast-movers is likely to be a bigger problem for us than a shortage of slow-movers.
[23:32] *Aeson* I think the Knight will finish by the time we'll be needing units to load
[23:32] *Aeson* yah, we need Knights
[23:32] *nbarclay* About the same time, anyhow.
[23:33] *Aeson* Our 20 Med Inf should be about as much as we want to build
[23:33] *Aeson* once Gunpowder shows up they really start to become useless for a while
[23:35] *nbarclay* For that matter, knights vs. musketmen isn't exactly my favorite thing in the world either.
[23:35] *Aeson* yah, but MilTradition is a lot closer than Replaceable parts
[23:36] *nbarclay* (Which is why in SP, I usually wait until Military Tradition to make my big move.)
[23:36] *Aeson* yep
[23:37] *Aeson* I would suspect that where the lines are drawn at gunpowder they will stay until military tradition, at least for the most part
[23:38] *Aeson* musketmen aren't fun to build, but they upgrade pretty well
[23:38] *nbarclay* Unless someone is almost dead.
[23:38] *nbarclay* Agreed.
[23:38] *Aeson* and taking them off mountains or out of walled cities is just sick and wrong
[23:38] *nbarclay* And we probably have by far the world's biggest stockpile of pikes.
[23:38] *Aeson* yah
[23:40] *Aeson* and we'll have the great wall for at least a couple more techs after that
[23:41] *Aeson* just for kicks... with the great wall, hill bonus, walls, in a 7-12 city... 95% odds for the Musketman vs the Knight
[23:41] *Aeson* without factoring in cats
[23:41] *nbarclay* Ouch!
[23:42] *Aeson* 93% in a flat city
[23:42] *nbarclay* Of course from what I've heard, when/if we switch to the next patch, we'll lose the wall bonus in size 7-12.
[23:42] *Aeson* yah
[23:43] *Aeson* actually, those numbers are for 1-6
[23:43] *Aeson* the combat calc over at civfanatics doesn't allow for the walls in size 7, and doesn't have a great wall option
[23:43] *Aeson* but that would be a kicker
[23:44] *Aeson* we'd lose the wall bonus, and the great wall bonus, by going from size 6 to 7
[23:44] *nbarclay* I checked the city order, and Wittlich is before Hurricane, so I can't switch to a galley in the build phase next turn like I'd wanted to.
[23:44] *nbarclay* So it's this turn, or we lose our chance.
[23:45] *Aeson* I like the idea, it would be good odds for us to at least sink 1 of them
[23:45] *nbarclay* 96 gold for a 60% chance of taking out GoW's healthier galley, which would be followed by a much higher chance of killing their injured one.
[23:46] *nbarclay* Very good odds for one, and not bad odds for getting them both.
[23:46] *Aeson* yep
[23:47] *Aeson* is miller town before hurricane?
[23:47] *nbarclay* Right between Wittlich and hurricane, if the arrows reflect the order cities build in.
[23:47] *Aeson* if it is, we could rush a cat there, get a cat shot on GoW's galley (most likely, we would be able to see if it was in range or not)
[23:49] *nbarclay* You're thinking rush the cat in the build phase next turn?
[23:49] *Aeson* I think for the most part they do
[23:49] *Aeson* yes... but that wouldn't work it seems
[23:49] *Aeson* cat would have a very good chance to knock GoW's galley down.. and would use up a bad RNG roll even if it didn't
[23:50] *nbarclay* If we rush a ship in Wittlich this turn, that interrupts the build queue to give us an opportunity to rush a cat next turn.
[23:50] *Aeson* !
[23:50] *Aeson* something to keep in mind
[23:51] *Aeson* if GoW moves their galleys to Wittlich 4 (is it in range?)
[23:52] *nbarclay* It's in range. We'll just have to see whether they do it or not.
[23:52] *nbarclay* But if they do, barring really bad luck, we should get two pretty easy kills.
[23:53] *Aeson* yah, 75% on the first shot
[23:54] *Aeson* then 78% for our Vet galley against a 2 hp one
[23:54] *Aeson* 85.6% for our reg gally against a 1hp one
[23:54] *Aeson* plus we could land up to 8 units next to Port Isolation in a turn with 2 galleys up there
[23:55] *nbarclay* Taking into account the possibilities of the cat both hitting and missing, our odds would be about 73.5% against the healthy galley, and a bit over 60% of taking out both.
[23:56] *nbarclay* Not with a GoW spear parked on that hill.
[23:56] *Aeson* oh yah
[23:57] *nbarclay* On the other hand, we have another regular galley coming up our east coast to join the fleet.
[23:58] *Aeson* do you think we might want to build a Worker out of wind of change this turn?

[notyoueither]

[00:00] *Aeson* it doesn't get the 2nd shield at size 2, so we'd be giving up a commerce (and paying another in upkeep)
[00:01] *nbarclay* Working bonus grasslands (probably just one), it can get an extra shield.
[00:03] *nbarclay* So I'm inclined to let it grow.
[00:03] *Aeson* yah, 2/2 or 2/3, so only one
[00:03] *Aeson* I didn't notice that the bg were available
[00:03] *nbarclay* You weren't the one who mined them.
[00:04] *nbarclay* That gives me a bit of an edge in remembering such things.
[00:04] *Aeson* yah, still getting up to speed
[00:04] *Aeson* it's looking very good
[00:04] *nbarclay* So you think I should rush the ship, and then send our remaining gold to RP?
[00:04] *Aeson* economically speaking... close to perfect I think
[00:04] *Aeson* I think so
[00:05] *Aeson* do we have to start researching now on Banking though?
[00:05] *nbarclay* My plan is to save up gold for a four- or five-turn sprint.
[00:06] *nbarclay* If we go through with that plan, which I'm starting to have serious doubts about.
[00:06] *nbarclay* We don't need Banking to fight a war, and we really don't have a huge amount of military use for Astronomy either.
[00:06] *Aeson* I agree
[00:07] *nbarclay* It would be nice, but getting to Invention (outside chance at Leo's with a leader) and Gunpowder faster seems more worthwhile.
[00:07] *Aeson* empty galleys can just as soon block full caravels as empty caravels it would seem
[00:07] *nbarclay* And what are the chances that GoW or ND will sell us Invention or Gunpowder?
[00:08] *nbarclay* Okay, rushing the galley.
[00:08] *Aeson* 612 gold to 'steal immediately'... not really worth it either
[00:09] *Aeson* oops, that was spain
[00:09] *Aeson* can't steal when at war anyways
[00:09] *Aeson* with an embassy
[00:11] *nbarclay* Chivalry, horses, and 238 gold sent accepted.
[00:11] *Aeson* that's a nice gift
[00:12] *nbarclay* So were New Madrid and Toledo, aside from the riders outside them.
[00:12] *Aeson* them having 4 Knights should really help though
[00:12] *Aeson* haha
[00:12] *nbarclay* Yes.
[00:12] *Aeson* we pinged another 2 Riders down with cats?
[00:12] *nbarclay* Yes.
[00:13] *nbarclay* Do you think GoW will get the message that dilly-dallying around in GS territory is not good for their health?
[00:13] *Aeson* I just hope they attack!
[00:13] *nbarclay* Definitely.
[00:14] *Aeson* we set up our defenses and no one ever plays their part
[00:14] *nbarclay*
[00:14] *nbarclay* Unfortunately, GoW is a lot more mobile than Vox was.
[00:14] *Aeson* yah
[00:14] *Aeson* and we don't have the cultural coverage to keep them from healing
[00:14] *Aeson* so they'll just run out, heal up, and run back in
[00:15] *Aeson* we should get RP to build walls in Barcelona
[00:16] *Aeson* I wonder if GoW's informant gave them the numbers in Toledo last turn?
[00:19] *nbarclay* If I were GoW and didn't want to attack, I'd go 2-1-2-4, taking advantage of the lack of cultural borders to use a road to gain an extra tile.
[00:19] *nbarclay* That would make it very hard to stop them from threatening Pamplona.
[00:20] *nbarclay* Especially since any move RP makes to stop them would make RP more vulnerable to ND.
[00:23] *Aeson* Definitely was kicking myself for not picking up on the Horses still being under RP control... otherwise we could have killed that stupid scout, and ND would have had to sacrifice an Ansar to cut that road
[00:23] *nbarclay* I don't think it would have matterd, though, would it?
[00:24] *Aeson* dead Ansar...
[00:24] *nbarclay* How would the upgrade timing have made a difference with respect to killing the scout?
[00:24] *Aeson* one ofthe Horses in Z could have killed the scout
[00:25] *Aeson* made it to cover of the L6 stack
[00:25] *nbarclay* Ah.
[00:25] *Aeson* might have delayed a horse upgrade a turn if the road was still cut
[00:26] *nbarclay* Can you see ND spending an Ansar to cut the road? I find it hard to imagine throwing away such an expensive unit like that.
[00:26] *Aeson* hmmmm... might be stupid, but what if RP rushes a Settler in P next turn (if GoW looks headed that way)?
[00:26] *nbarclay* Why?
[00:27] *Aeson* only way would be if they had talked to GoW and set up a squeeze on P
[00:27] *Aeson* then an Ansar would have been worth the whole stack just about
[00:27] *Aeson* the Settler moves to L66
[00:27] *Aeson* so does the stack
[00:27] *nbarclay* True.
[00:27] *Aeson* Settler builds town, stack can move to P
[00:27] *Aeson* they'd need to rush it in the chivalry stage
[00:28] *Aeson* workers could be added to P to get it back up over 7
[00:28] *Aeson* and depending on the timing, p could rush a wall?
[00:29] *Aeson* RP has those 3 workers on the Gold by P
[00:29] *nbarclay* but no road, so there would be a delay in getting them added.
[00:29] *Aeson* of course it's a lot of work if no one attacks P
[00:30] *nbarclay* If GoW threatens P with a big stack, RP will be able to see it. We can figure out what to do about it then, but we need to make sure they interrupt their turn and get us involved early enough.
[00:31] *Aeson* yah, we need to be there when they accept chivalry and the gold I think
[00:31] *nbarclay* Agreed.
[00:31] *nbarclay* Anything else before I call the turn finished?
[00:31] *Aeson* nothing I can think of
[00:32] *nbarclay* Okay. I'll take the screenshots and then check back here before I officially end the turn.
[00:32] *Aeson* k
[00:52] * nbarclay has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[01:07] * Aeson has quit IRC (Quit: )

[Shiber]

[Theseus]

Excellent positioning guys. Hopefully GoW cooperates.

[Shiber]

[DeepO]

mentioned in the chat, but not entirely correct, I think (but I'm lookking at screenshots here): we can unload all our troops currently in transport by galley chaining, so that all of them have movement remaining.

the idea is to move the galleys currently at WW114 normally into Sirocco (those are covered in the chat, I believe, having 1K+3P), those at WW11 as close to Sirocco as possible. The 3 empty galleys can then be used to pick up troops from the moved galleys, go into Sirocco, unload, go back, pick up troops again, and move into Sirocco again. That should make it possible to unload 6 galleys from WW11 if needs to be.

Further optimisation can be done by not letting 2 of those WW11 galleys end at S6, but at S66, and take their troops into the other galleys from there. Those 2 W11 galleys can then be 2 tiles closer to Stormia.

DeepO

[nbarclay]

True about the galley chaining; I wasn't thinking about that. But I imagine we'll want to use one of the empty galleys to pick up a knight rather than to land pikes quicker.

[zeit]

What about research? If we're thinking about not doing banking, then its time we have a little talk with Lego- because time is running out, and if they'll go for it, it would be a shame to start research and waste our gold...

[DeepO]

chaining: how many galleys are at WW11? 4? if so, we have one galley to spare, and enough ready to perform more chaining next turn.

research: is this decided already? I mean, are we going for invention, or want to go for invention? In that case, I'll contact Lego to ask what their opinion is, but as long as we don't know for sure, I'd rather not do that... already the confusion is big enough.

DeepO

[Shiber]

Outposts as landing blockers sound like a good idea.

[DeepO]

outposts would be very good on mountains, e.g. near Hurricane and blizzard. Only problem is of course that they cost food, which, as long as all our core cities aren't maxed out, brings more then 1 commerce per citizen (meaning we lose more then the upkeep needed for a troop, instead of a outpost).

The moment we have too many workers, they should be added to core cities first, only then be used for building outposts. With the exception of the mountains that let us spot invaders sooner, like H9, SA99 and W89.

DeepO

[Theseus]

Outposts cost food? Huh?

[DeepO]

you disband the worker when building the outpost, no? Never tried them much...

DeepO

[Theseus]

Oh... yeah, they cost food, shields, and lost commerce.

I don;t think of Workers that way though... at any given point, existing Workers are a sunk cost, and their total disposition (i.e., road, irrigate, move, join, outpost) is a balance. Building future Workers is, for me, typically an exercise in minimizing opportunity cost for the given benefits (e.g., tile working, tile sharing, lessened unhappiness, etc.).

[DeepO]

Oh, you're right... but after the opportunity cost, there is more to it. And if I see the map, we have plenty of workers to do the improvements so that no citizen should work an unimproved tile.

After the opportunity cost, there are 3 (good) uses for workers:
1. adding to cities in which they produce shields and commerce, preferably in places where the city grows faster, because the workers was build in a granary city
2. after that, foresting: planting, chopping, and reimproving tiles for extra shields
3. after that outposts.

The order can change, though, depending on the situation. Which is happening right now: an immediate outpost on W89 takes precedence over adding to cities. As long as Lego hasn't got navigation, adding to cities or foresting would be better then building outposts on e.g. H9...

I agree these are small differences, but in the end, it's those small differences that brought us where we are now. An extra gpt or spt is well worth the trouble over the course of the game

DeepO