Turn 131, 50 AD

[nbarclay]

Is anybody still around?

[notyoueither]

Waiting for a copy of the save.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Waiting for a copy of the save.

patiently

[nbarclay]

Oops. The save is on its way.

[nbarclay]

We have 192 gold. Is there anything special we want to do in the production phase? Not really much we can do rushing-wise without slowing down RP's ability to get knights.

[notyoueither]

Thanks. Chat anyone?

Apolyton server

/join #GS Hood

[nbarclay]

The order our cities build in seems to be a bit messed up by all the city transfers. For example, Wittlich and Millter Town are between EotS and Hurricane. I haven't checked carefully enough to be sure whether our native cities are out of order or whether we just have cities of foreign origin scattered through the mix.

[notyoueither]

Foreign origin should be scattered throughout. They should come in order of city founding, roughly.

[notyoueither]

Nathan, who is Knight?

[nbarclay]

It was me. Somehow, my software seems to have gotten messed up (or Apolyton's has).

[notyoueither]

np. rejoin.

[notyoueither]

Turn chat:

Session Start: Thu Jul 31 22:52:37 2003
Session Ident: #GS
[22:52] * Now talking in #GS
[22:52] * Retrieving #GS info...
[22:52] * nye sets mode: +ps
[22:52] * nye sets mode: +n
[22:53] * nye sets mode: +k Nelson
[22:53] * nye sets mode: -k Nelson
[22:53] * nye sets mode: +k Hood
[22:58] * Trip has joined #GS
[22:58] *Trip* didn't the Hood get sunk
[22:59] *nye* one of them did
[22:59] *nye* there was a ship, and there was a man
[22:59] *Trip*
[22:59] *Trip* I'm talking about the ship
[22:59] *nye* maybe i am talking the man
[23:00] *Trip* well, maybe he sunk too
[23:00] *nye* i don;t think so, but i could be wrong
[23:01] *nye* he did well enough to have the pride of the fleet named after him
[23:01] *Trip* but that got sunk
[23:02] *nye* so, we are back at the beginning. he didn't
[23:02] *Trip* maybe I should go back to refreshing the forum and watching PBEM threads jump to the top :P
[23:03] *nye* hahaha
[23:03] *nye* there may be some action here. give it time
[23:03] *Trip* Nathan never comes by :P
[23:04] *Trip* it's always you, me, Aeson and the orange
[23:04] *nye* nathan will show up tonight
[23:05] * nbarclay has joined #GS
[23:06] *Trip* damn you
[23:06] *nbarclay* I hope you weren't talking to me.
[23:06] *Trip* what if I was
[23:06] *nbarclay* Not exactly my favorite words to hear when I first join a channel.
[23:07] *Trip* look on the bright side, at least I'm not GF :
[23:07] *Trip*
[23:07] *nye* heheh
[23:07] *nye* hi, nathan
[23:08] *nye* *nye* nathan will show up tonight
[23:08] *nye* immediately before you joined
[23:08] *nbarclay* Hi NYE.
[23:08] *Trip* Nathan do you know what you guys are doing the next few turns :P
[23:08] *Trip* NYE hasn't been very specific
[23:09] *nbarclay* Building, moving troops, and fighting.
[23:09] *nye* trip has been pumping me, nathan
[23:09] *nbarclay* Is that specific enough for you?
[23:09] *Trip* [22:56] *nye* we will be reacting for a bit
[23:09] *Trip* [22:56] *Trip* you're landing those 7 new Knights
[23:09] *Trip* [22:56] *Trip* everything goes to Toledo? What about NM?
[23:09] *Trip* [22:56] *nye* good question
[23:09] *Trip* [22:57] *nye* as i said. we will be reacting for a few turns
[23:09] *Trip* [22:58] *Trip* do you expect them to attack Toledo?
[23:09] *Trip* [22:59] *nye* not sure
[23:10] *Trip* [22:59] *nye* they might
[23:10] *Trip* [23:00] *Trip* any plans on what to do if they went for NM or Barcelona instead?
[23:10] *Trip* [23:00] *Trip* beyond "reacting" that is
[23:10] *Trip* [23:00] *nye* kill, crush, destroy
[23:10] *Trip* [23:00] *Trip* what if they're on mountain tiles? :P
[23:10] *Trip* [23:01] *Trip* kind of hard to crush defense of 6 :P
[23:10] *Trip* [23:01] *nye* very true. we shall see
[23:10] *Trip* very enlightening :P
[23:10] *Trip* "good question, not sure, they might, very true, we shall see"
[23:10] *Trip* as I was saying, I've gotten more info from the PBEM threads
[23:10] *nye* that is me in diplo mode
[23:10] *nye*
[23:13] *nbarclay* If GoW tries to stay on mountains, our cats may make things a bit interesting for them.
[23:13] *nbarclay* Do you happen to know for sure whether fortifying cats makes their defensive fire more accurate?
[23:13] *nye* i don't think so. not sure where that idea comes from
[23:14] *Trip* 4 cats? :P
[23:14] *nye* they have a bombard value, that is not increased by forting
[23:15] *nye* i think we begin the pinging
[23:15] *nbarclay* Unless there's a game mechanic that I don't know about (and hadn't even thought of the possibility of before tonight).
[23:15] *Trip* but they can reach NM in 2 turns :P
[23:15] * asleepath has joined #GS
[23:16] *nye* hi, sleepy
[23:16] *nbarclay* Shall I go ahead and finish the production phase?
[23:16] *asleepath* hey
[23:16] *nye* any rushing?
[23:16] *nbarclay* Hi Asleep.
[23:17] *nye* if no rushing to send gold, then no reason not to finish
[23:17] *nbarclay* The rush I'd thought about doing was in New Madrid, but it looks like we already have shields there for this turn, and we don't have the gold for it anyhow.
[23:17] *nbarclay* (Not if we want RP to be able to upgrade all three horsemen.)
[23:18] *nye* ok
[23:19] *nbarclay* Production phase complete. Move the cats in and fire?
[23:20] *nye* build the city
[23:20] *nye* land the knights
[23:20] *nye* there may be a problem...
[23:21] *nye* we should discuss
[23:21] *nye* in the thread too
[23:21] *nbarclay* Do you remember exactly where Aeson wanted the city?
[23:22] *nye* right where it is. nm 3 3
[23:22] *nbarclay* Oh, that city. I was thinking of the one in our territory. Oops.
[23:22] *nye* that one? i do not know.
[23:23] *nye* best to let him say
[23:23] *nye* is inchoff permanent?
[23:23] *nbarclay* Any thoughts on the name for our new coastal city?
[23:23] *nbarclay* Yes, Inchoff is permanent. It gives great access to coast and sea tiles even though it won't have much production.
[23:24] *nye* ok
[23:24] *nye* city on spanish coast?
[23:24] *nbarclay* (But with irrigation and rails to work mountains, its production wouldn't be terrible either.)
[23:24] *nbarclay* Yes, the one on the Spanish coast.
[23:24] *nye* i suggested on a long time ago... let me check
[23:25] *nbarclay* I don't suppose we have any Spanish storm words, do we?
[23:25] *nye* Sirocco
[23:26] *nbarclay* Sounds good, just so long as it's not on the regular Spanish name list.
[23:26] *nye* a warm wind blowing from the interior of africa up across the coast and into spain
[23:27] *nbarclay* Nope, not on the Spanish name list, so Sirocco it is.
[23:27] *nye* 'The sirocco, from Arabic sarq (meaning "east") blows out of the Sahara, all the way to southern Europe.'
[23:28] *nye* if d'ville ends up moved...
[23:29] *nye* we either build where the settler stands, or 1 to 3 to get more tiles and be on the coast
[23:32] *nbarclay* I'm skeptical that we'll move Dissidentville. We need its production during wartime, and building it down and then back up from that point would take a lot of time and shields.
[23:33] *nye* well. if it stays where it is, the new city needs more coast tiles and a harbour to be able to use them even more
[23:33] *nbarclay* Quote from Aeson in last turn's thread: "I'd prefer 662, as it puts the city at a distance 1.5 closer to the FP, shares Blizzard's OCN, and gives access to the Mountain at Blizzard 44, which we wouldn't be able to use otherwise"
[23:33] *nye* 662 of what?
[23:34] *nbarclay* (From Dissidentville.
[23:35] *nbarclay* That would be 2 from where the settler is now, or 7-7 from Blizzard.
[23:35] *nye* yum
[23:36] *nye* no harbour
[23:36] *nbarclay* Going for more coast is largely pointless. There's only one tile the new city could reach that couldn't be worked by Inchoff or Blizzard.
[23:36] *nbarclay* (Even if we tried to reach as much as possible from the new city.)
[23:36] *nye* you are correct
[23:36] *nye* if that is where you and he want to put it, i wiill not argue
[23:36] * Trip has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:38] *nbarclay* Considering Aeson's skill in such matters, I'm inclined to defer to his judgement in the absence of any particular reason not to.
[23:38] *nbarclay* Any thoughts on a name for this one?
[23:38] *nye* Santa Ana
[23:39] *nye* hot wind towards the coast from a desert area
[23:39] *nbarclay* And hope there are no Texans on the team?
[23:39] *nbarclay* (Actually, I'm the son of a Texan.)
[23:40] *nye* hehe
[23:40] *nye* sorry
[23:40] *nye* we could name it something else
[23:40] *nbarclay* I'm just kidding.
[23:40] *nye* thought so
[23:40] * nye sets mode: +o nbarclay
[23:40] * nye sets mode: +o asleepath
[23:41] *nye* anyways, the problem we face...
[23:42] *nye* we msu defeat nd and gow armies
[23:42] *nye* not just hold cities
[23:42] *nye* *we must
[23:42] *nbarclay* Santa Ana founded.
[23:42] *nye* cool
[23:42] *nye*
[23:42] *nye* for a hot wind
[23:43] *nbarclay* Agreed that we need to defeat their armies, but if GoW attacks Toledo, that will go a long way toward accomplishing that role if luck goes reasonably well.
[23:44] *nye* true
[23:44] *nye* we must keep in mind though, that we cannot wed ourselves too much to goegraphy
[23:44] *nye* we must go forth and seek combat
[23:44] *nye* break their armies
[23:45] *nye* not when they are sitting on mountains though
[23:45] *nye* who knows, vox did not do arashi, maybe we are due...
[23:46] *nye* and in 2 turns, it becomes very much more expensive for them to assault our cities
[23:46] *nye* btw, is it confirmed that GW effects more than barbs?
[23:47] *nye* ahh. sorry
[23:47] *nye* double effect of walls in cities that have them, AND...
[23:47] *nye* cfc combat calc is off in that regard
[23:50] * Knight has joined #gs
[23:50] *Knight* Anybody here?
[23:50] *nye* who goes there?
[23:51] *Knight* It's Nathan. I have no idea how this "Knight" bit came up. I'll see if I can leave and rejoin.
[23:51] * Knight has left #gs
[23:51] *asleepath* huh
[23:52] *nye* huh is right
[23:52] *asleepath* has trip leaked the pword again?
[23:53] *nye* no. whis resolves to the same user name
[23:53] *asleepath* oh, ok
[23:53] *nye* maybe
[23:53] *asleepath* if we directly assaulted GoW's homeland, would lego get involved?
[23:53] *nye* i am a bit freaked by it
[23:53] *nye* that will have to be faced, sleepy
[23:54] *nye* a question is, are they ready to intervene?
[23:54] *asleepath* I think not yet...
[23:54] *nye* and would they choose them or us?
[23:54] *asleepath* them probably, but it would take a long time for them to ship units to the eastern edge
[23:54] *nye* we could invite them to deal with the glory of whining
[23:54] *asleepath* they have a nap with RP til 1000 (if that's worth anything)
[23:55] *nye* i doubt it is
[23:55] *nye* we are the only team that agreed amongst ourselves to approach the game that way
[23:55] *asleepath* we have quite a few units in the north, and the gow homeland seems to be lightly defended....
[23:55] *nye* which is why we shouldn;t make a big deal out of it
[23:56] *asleepath* yes, its a bit ridiculous, all around
[23:56] *asleepath* are we sending the wittlich galley out two squares to scout Port Isolation? would be interesting.
[23:57] * nbarclay has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[23:57] *nye* pi is empty. the chariots can see that
[23:57] * nbarclay has joined #GS
[23:57] *asleepath* oh, ok.
[23:57] *nbarclay* I think I somehow managed to get halfway cut off.
[23:58] *nye* good it was just half way
[23:58] *nbarclay* When I tried to go back in, my primary identity was already taken, so it would't let me in as nbarclay.
[23:58] *nye* then that one timed out, so you could come back
[23:58] *nbarclay* So it went to the alternate, which I had entered as "Knight O' Vaxdom", which was shortened to Knight.
[23:59] *nbarclay* At least that's what happened as best I can tell.
[23:59] *nye* cool
[23:59] *nye* well, anyways, what else can we do tonight? the whole turn?
[23:59] *nbarclay* Anyhow, we were talking about getting rid of enemy troops?
[23:59] *nye* yes
[23:59] * Trip has joined #GS

[notyoueither]

[00:00] *nye* i agree. toledo is not a bad way station
[00:00] *nye* but we must not wed ourselves too much to cities
[00:00] *nye* we must destroy their armies
[00:01] *nbarclay* We can't destroy GoW's army until it either attacks or moves onto terrain that won't give them a big advantage.
[00:01] *nye* i agree
[00:01] *nye* that is what sucks
[00:01] *nbarclay* And we have to keep plenty of forces to defend against it or RP's production will be ravaged.
[00:01] *nye* if we get tied down chasing ghosts while nd eats rp
[00:01] *nye* i agree
[00:02] *nye* we go to toledo this turn
[00:02] *nye* i do have misgivings about tying ourselves to cities though
[00:02] *nye* there will come a time where nd can crush pamplona
[00:02] *nye* and then they will be on both sides of us
[00:03] *nye* we must find a way of defeating one or the other before that point
[00:03] *nbarclay* Or at least wear down one or the other to where it doesn't tie us down so badly.
[00:03] *nye* yes
[00:03] *asleepath* maybe we should send the northern units over to GoW's homeland, to take the fight to them
[00:03] *asleepath* if they try to wait us out in the south
[00:04] *nye* i think that should be planned for, sleepy
[00:04] *nye* so, on we go and begin the pinging
[00:04] *nbarclay* We don't have adequate transport in the North at the moment, and if we spend time getting it there, that gives GoW and ND too much breathing room in the South.
[00:04] *nye* i agree
[00:05] *nye* there comes a point, soon, where we do not need all the transposts to the south though
[00:05] *nye* i am speaking more of general situations than what should be done this turn
[00:06] *nbarclay* One hit out of four shots. At least their elite is wounded now.
[00:06] *nye* ideally, gow will make a mistake before nd can overcome nd in pamplona
[00:06] *nye* 1 of 4?
[00:06] *nbarclay* We still have a LOT more troops to land.
[00:07] *nbarclay* Yes, just one of the four hit.
[00:07] *nye* oh well.
[00:07] *nye* that takes the edge off the elite at least
[00:07] *nbarclay* Better than nothing, and it should give GoW something to think about.
[00:07] *nye* they will want to protect him, if they are par for the course
[00:08] *nbarclay* And how better to protect him than to take Toledo and let him rest there?
[00:08] *nbarclay* Let's hope that's what they think.
[00:08] *nye* more pikes coming to be able to cover nm?
[00:08] *nye* we may need to defend that city
[00:09] *nbarclay* We still have two pikes, three MedInfs, and a knight on galleys.
[00:09] *nye* cool
[00:09] *nye* if they do not come on to toledo, nm is where they will go
[00:09] *asleepath* I've heard that fortifying cats will make them more accurate on defense, is that true?
[00:09] *nye* we can fort all, sleepy.
[00:09] *nye* and i dout it
[00:10] *nye* *doubt
[00:10] *nye* does fortifying increase bombard?
[00:10] *nbarclay* We have something like a dozen pikes, four vet MedInfs, and four regular MedInfs that we can load up in future waves for the South.
[00:10] *nbarclay* Unless I've missed some.
[00:10] *nye* cool
[00:10] *nye* time is the only enemy
[00:11] *nye* brb
[00:11] *nbarclay* Also another three cats.
[00:12] *nbarclay* We want to use galley chaining to get our seventh knight landed this turn?
[00:12] *nye* can we finish the turn?
[00:13] *nbarclay* I'm not thinking of any reason we couldn't. Can you think of one?
[00:13] *nye* what do you feel about it, nathan?
[00:13] *nye* galley chaining?
[00:13] *nbarclay* I hate to do it without more people, but I won't have time tomorrow before our time is up.
[00:13] *nye* ok
[00:14] *nbarclay* I think it's probably a good move.
[00:14] *nbarclay* (galley chaining)
[00:14] *nye* ok. do it
[00:15] *nye* pandora's box has been openned. others have said they will use the system
[00:15] *nbarclay* I'm also thinking that since the galleys we loaded last turn are still by our cities, I can unload one of the units I loaded last turn, replace him with a knight, and unload that knight in the city next turn.
[00:15] *nbarclay* That way using galley chaining this turn doesn't slow down our getting our third knight across of the three that can load this turn.
[00:15] *nye* 2 extra knights finished this turn, right?
[00:15] *nbarclay* By the way, do we want to rename Grog on Wheels, Grog on Hooves?
[00:16] *nye* 'for the glory of grog'
[00:16] *nbarclay* Two knights finished, but only one can reach a ship this turn. There are also two we upgraded last turn.
[00:16] *nye* ok
[00:17] *nbarclay* Galley chaining means we can only load one galley this turn, but swapping a unit on one of our other galleys keeps that from delaying getting knights to Bob.
[00:17] *nbarclay* (As I described above.)
[00:17] *nye* ok
[00:17] *nye* you have a good handle on it
[00:21] *nbarclay* While I'm swapping units, should I swap out MedInfs and replace them with additional pikes?
[00:21] *nye* just remember to fort all with a unit in toledo when we have all forces there
[00:21] *nye* what do you feel?
[00:22] *nye* if they move on nm, we may want every available unit to punish them
[00:23] *nye* 3 more medinfs could spell the difference between hurting tham, and disaster for them
[00:23] *nbarclay* True. We could use MedInfs to soften them up and finish them with knights if they survive the MedInfs.
[00:23] *nye* if they move to toledo 3 3...
[00:24] *nye* we come at them with everything we have out of toledo
[00:25] *nye* if they go to nm 8, rp grants back to us to hold, and we still go at them with everything we have from both directions
[00:25] *nbarclay* Question: do we give back NM this turn or keep it in case GoW tries for it instead of hitting Toledo?
[00:25] *nye* what if they go 2 6 from where they are?
[00:25] *nye* we can give it back
[00:26] *nye* if they move on it, that will be seen, and rp can give back to us to defend
[00:26] *nye* :screwy:
[00:26] *asleepath* grateful for the jungle, the great equalizer with 3 move units. if they retreat, we can chase so they can't heal
[00:27] *nye* yeah, jungle is great, in other peoples homes, isn't it
[00:27] *Trip* :P
[00:28] *nbarclay* I just wish Toledo 3-3 were jungle.
[00:28] *nye* you and me both
[00:28] *nbarclay* What I'm really worried about is GoW moving to NM 8.
[00:28] *nye* however, that tile looks like ideal grave yard for gow army...
[00:29] *asleepath*
[00:29] *nbarclay* What's the bonus for hills?
[00:29] *nye* nm 8 is cool
[00:29] *Trip* can't they reach NM from the mountains? :P
[00:29] *nye* we hit them with everything we have
[00:29] *nye* no, trip
[00:29] *nye* damn.
[00:29] *asleepath* is that ND mi a lookout for our army, or are they there to insure that the GoW actually engages someone for a change. A nice dual purpose unit for them
[00:30] *nbarclay* Ouch. They could move 2-4 and then hit from mountains.
[00:30] *nbarclay* And they'd have a fork on two cities.
[00:30] *nye* yes
[00:30] *nbarclay* Toledo and NM.
[00:30] *nye* how badly do they want the tile?
[00:31] *nye* 4 knights forted on it?
[00:31] *nbarclay* I've already moved our knights, but a pike or two could make it interesting.
[00:32] *nye* 3 knights started in toledo
[00:32] *nye* let's think about this
[00:32] *nbarclay* Maybe a MedInf or two beneath, although retreat might put the balance of expected losses a bit in GoW's favor on that.
[00:33] *nbarclay* NYE, those three knights are the only forted knights we have there.
[00:33] *asleepath* there's a decent chance that they don't realize the fork and us putting pikes there would alert them that the mountain is valuable to us.
[00:33] *nye* i know
[00:33] *nye* sleepy, they can read a map
[00:33] *nye* and at least one of them has played chess
[00:34] *nbarclay* If they hit NM, they're hitting a size 7 hill city across a river. And we might get a chance to rush walls in the production phase next turn (or we could rush them now but probably leave ND short a knight). That is, if we keep the city.
[00:34] *nye* we have another 3 pikes and 3 med inf following
[00:35] *nye* they could be in nm along with the pike from sirocco
[00:35] *nbarclay* By the way, RP forgot to give us their gold, so they'll lose some to ND when Zaragoza falls.
[00:35] *nye* damn
[00:36] *nye* we can't buy walls in nm
[00:36] *nbarclay* If we swap out the MedInfs for pikes, we'll have three pikes and three knights landing next turn. We also have two other pikes that could pull back to defend NM.
[00:37] *nye* ok
[00:38] *nbarclay* So eight defenders, plus we could pull a couple knights back from Toledo.
[00:38] *nye* they would be on the road.
[00:39] *nbarclay* 1-2-3-3-3 goes around the mountain.
[00:39] *nye* oh
[00:39] *nye* yeah
[00:41] *Trip* how many units will you have landed total after next turn?
[00:41] *nbarclay* With ten defenders, NM could almost certainly hold even without walls, and troops from Toledo would swoop in and demolish the remainder of GoW's army (with any luck).
[00:41] *nye* true
[00:41] *nye* plus pinging
[00:42] *nbarclay* Yeah, one more hit point?
[00:42] *nbarclay* But maybe we'll get luckier next turn if they do that.
[00:42] *nye* maybe
[00:42] *nye* is spain done, then?
[00:43] *nbarclay* I haven't swapped out the MedInfs for pikes yet.
[00:43] *nye* ok, go ahead and finish up there, unless there is something else to discuss.
[00:44] *nye* pikes, or knights?
[00:49] * Knight has joined #GS
[00:49] *Knight* It just did it to me again.
[00:49] *nye* np
[00:50] *nye* are you switching for pikes? or pikes and knights?
[00:50] *Knight* I guess I can just stay knight until I get disconnected again?
[00:50] *nye* yes
[00:50] *nye* i have checked, you are you
[00:51] *Knight* Okay.
[00:51] *nye* besides, if you mail the save, you better be on our side
[00:51] *Knight* What I did was I pulled the MedInfs and replaced them with pikes.
[00:51] *nye* all? no knights?
[00:51] *Knight* The knights had already been loaded.
[00:51] *nye* oh well
[00:51] *nye* oh. ok
[00:52] *Knight* (On the galleys.)
[00:52] *Trip* how many units will you have on the main continent next turn?
[00:52] *Knight* Or were you talking about something else?
[00:52] *nye* what will land next turn?
[00:52] *Knight* Three knights, three pikes.
[00:52] *nye* Trip, why such specific questions, if I may ask?
[00:53] *nye* ok cool, nathan.
[00:53] *Knight* That plus two already loaded could give us eight 3-defense units in NM, plus whatever we pull back from Toledo.
[00:53] *nye* ok
[00:53] *Knight* already landed.
[00:53] *nye* we are done in the south?
[00:54] *Trip* NYE: just curious, I'm a very hard # type of person
[00:54] *nye* heheh
[00:54] *Trip* if you'll notice my simulations and whatnot for the ISDG
[00:54] *nye* many more than gow has advancing
[00:54] *Trip* demographics analyses
[00:54] *Trip* etc.
[00:55] *nye* 26 plus
[00:55] *Trip* sheeze
[00:55] *nye* as many knights as they have riders
[00:55] *Trip* that's almost unfair :P
[00:55] *nye* plus cats, pike and med inf
[00:56] *asleepath* not to mention the 7 cats that we gave to RP
[00:56] *nye* well, half of rp has been eaten already
[00:56] *Trip* how many cats? You only have 4 onshore right now
[00:56] *nye* 4
[00:56] *Trip* territory is worthless without the means to keep it
[00:56] * nbarclay has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[00:56] *nye* true, and rp is rapidly losing the means to keep any
[00:57] *Trip* at least their main army is intact
[00:57] *nye* yes
[00:57] *nye* that may save them while we arrive
[00:57] *nye* it will be a near run thing
[00:57] *Trip* it WILL save them, or they'll die
[00:57] *Knight* Actually, they'll have one more rider than we'll have knights landed next turn.
[00:57] *Trip* there's not much space in between
[00:57] *Trip* I'm interested in seeing how things turn out in the west
[00:58] *nye* me too, trip. very
[00:58] *Trip* small, but highly mobile and dangerous force on one side, HUGE but relatively slow force on the other
[00:58] *nye* that is where the fate of the game rides, for the most part
[00:59] *Trip* Vicksburg and Gettysburg
[00:59] *nye* nathan, done in the south?
[00:59] *Trip* muahaha
[00:59] * Trip grabs popcorn
[00:59] *nye* heh

[notyoueither]

[01:00] *nye* is nathan gone, again?
[01:01] *Knight* I'm still here.
[01:01] *Trip* [00:59] [Knight PING reply]: 1sec
[01:01] *nye* cool. done in the south?
[01:01] *Knight* Except for economic stuff on our own continent.
[01:01] *nye* what about the north?
[01:02] *nye* is the counter attack stack still where it was?
[01:02] *Knight* I'm wondering if we shoud put a couple WCs in Wittlich to reduce (and, I hope, eliminate) the odds of a culture flip.
[01:02] *Knight* We have a couple that aren't on blocking duty.
[01:03] *nye* culture flip? we immediately destry it
[01:03] *nye* my q is why we are not blocking all landing tiles.
[01:04] *Knight* I just moved a regular MedInf to block the mountain.
[01:04] *nye* cool
[01:04] *nye* what about the vacinity of bbs?
[01:05] *nye* and the voice?
[01:05] *Knight* Unless they risk sinking, there is nowhere they can land that we won't see them first.
[01:05] *nye* they can come out of the fow and land with 3 def units
[01:05] *nye* that is incorrect
[01:05] *nye* they can get as far as bbs 1 4
[01:06] *nye* and the voice 8 7
[01:06] *nye* 5 uncovered tiles
[01:07] *Knight* You're right. I missed that they could go quite that far.
[01:07] *nye* glad we are chatting
[01:07] *nye* i had meant to post this stuff, but i always assumed the beginning was not the end of turn
[01:08] *Knight* I moved a worker to BBS 1.
[01:08] *nye* a pike can get to bbs 7
[01:09] *Knight* Right. Done.
[01:09] *nye* i would suggest something on bbs 2 as well, just in case they do something gutsy
[01:10] *nye* they park a galley on 2 2 2 1
[01:10] *nye* if it survives another transfers to riders to it.
[01:10] *nye* they then sail to bbs 1 1 and land on bbs 2. hill
[01:11] *Knight* I guess I could put a pike there, although I hate the loss of mobility.
[01:11] *nye* have a worker move there and road
[01:11] *nye* safe tile til the worker finises road
[01:12] *nye* safer after that
[01:12] *Knight* I already started the worker at Elipolis 7-7 roading, and he was the only other worker in that area.
[01:12] *nye* 3 units go north, and it is all tied up.
[01:13] *nye* damn
[01:13] *Knight* I could put a pike on the hill, and then trade places with the worker after that though.
[01:13] *nye* i would move somthing to that hill this turn
[01:13] *nye* and switch with the worker next turn
[01:13] *nye* there we are
[01:13] * Trip has quit IRC (Quit: )
[01:13] *Knight* I put a pike there.
[01:14] *nye* can we move 3 units north to cover the beaches nw of the voice?
[01:14] *Knight* I'd rather wait the extra turn to switch and finish the road we started this turn.
[01:14] *nye* ok
[01:15] *Knight* We can get WCs to two of the tiles by The Voice this turn, and a pike next turn.
[01:15] *nye* ok.
[01:15] *Knight* I'm thinking leave the tile farthest away open.
[01:15] *nye* we seem to have more culture than gow, anyway
[01:15] *Knight* Shall I scout with our galley?
[01:16] *nye* i think so. 4 4?
[01:16] *Knight* And if so, do we want to leave our galley out at sea or pull it back to Wittlich?
[01:16] *nye* w 1 is a good place to park it, if we have the north covered
[01:17] *nye* puts some fear into gow
[01:17] *Knight* 4-4 spotted nothing interesting aside from the fact that Port Isolation is empty.
[01:17] *nye* or go to bbs 7 4
[01:17] *nye* from there we can probe firther south, and gow cannot see it
[01:18] *nye* we see pi at the beginning of turn with a chariot, don;t we?
[01:18] *Knight* There's a pike on the hill next to Port Isolation.
[01:18] *nye* go 2 6 from where you are
[01:18] *nye* spear?
[01:19] *Knight* Yes, spear. Sorry.
[01:19] *Knight* If we keep the galley by Wittlich, it could hit GoW galleys that try to move around our blockade in either direction.
[01:19] *nye* np. where to leave the galley?
[01:20] *nye* true
[01:20] *Knight* If we move it very far, GoW could go around before we could catch them.
[01:20] *nye* so, w 1?
[01:20] *Knight* I'm thinking W4 might be an interesting place for the galley, right in GoW's faces and able to scout in either direction.
[01:21] *nye* could be good, however, leaves one side blind to approaching threat.
[01:21] *nye* but, we know they have 2 galleys to the south
[01:22] *Knight* What does W1 give that W4 doesn't?
[01:22] *nye* safety from galley coming from the north
[01:22] *nye* they cannot strike without warning
[01:22] *Knight* True.
[01:22] *nye* vet galley, more than likely
[01:23] *Knight* The galleys RP is chasing are regulars.
[01:23] *nye* they still only have one port
[01:23] *Knight* But yes, GoW could have another one or two.
[01:24] *Knight* By the way, I'm putting Hurricane on a little fleet of vet galleys of our own.
[01:24] *nye* trafalgar is at 25 or so spt
[01:24] *Knight* Unless someone objects, of course.
[01:25] *Knight* I assume that's with the GA bonus?
[01:25] *nye* time for discussion
[01:25] *nye* i thought monsoon and sufa were doing that
[01:25] *nye* yeah, i was adding one per tile
[01:25] *nye* 7 pop, +8 spt
[01:26] *nye* or +7
[01:26] *nye* i assume one irrigated grass for 1 more hill
[01:26] *Knight* The city square does get the GA bonus.
[01:26] *nye* really? i thought it did
[01:26] *nye* shows how much attantion i pay
[01:26] *Knight* I said does get.
[01:26] *nye* oh
[01:27] *nye* it is late
[01:27] *Knight* Did you take corruption into account?
[01:27] *nye* and it shows how much attention i pay
[01:27] *nye* no, not reduced for corruption, hjust raw
[01:28] *Knight* Still, they could crank out vet galleys in two turns if they're willing to give up the rider production. (But we can do the same in Hurricane.)
[01:28] *nye* 22 raw, with one irrigated, no bonus grass
[01:30] *Knight* So two-turn galleys, or probably 4-turn riders if they have a courthouse, probably 4-turn if they don't.
[01:30] *Knight* 5-turn if they don't.
[01:30] *Knight* Yes, it is late.
[01:30] *nye* heh
[01:30] *nye* well, might as well take it home. then i can post a log
[01:31] *Knight* Move WCs onto the two vulnerable tiles closest to The Voice for this turn, and then move one of those onto the other tile and replace it with a pike next turn?
[01:32] *nye* ok
[01:32] *Knight* Galley is parked at W1.
[01:32] *Knight* Units stationed.
[01:33] *Knight* Shall I just take care of the rest of the economic stuff on my own?
[01:33] *Knight* I think we've handled all the military decisions, aside from build priority issues that can wait until next turn.
[01:34] *Knight* Hello?
[01:34] *nye* np, nathan
[01:35] *nye* sorry, got distracted
[01:35] *nye* i think you could take it home from here
[01:35] *nye* the screen shot will tell everyone what is being built
[01:36] *nye* how much gold do we give rp?
[01:38] *Knight* All of it, just to be on the safe side? And then they can give back what's left over?
[01:38] *nye* i guess so
[01:39] *nye* that's a lot of gold
[01:39] *nye* and chivalry, don;t forget chivalry
[01:41] *Knight* Just a little over a turn's net income.
[01:41] *Knight* Hardly trivial, but not huge either.
[01:41] *nye* well. they will think it is eldorado
[01:42] *nye* 190, and 80 some odd...
[01:42] *nye* damn, just short of 4 knights
[01:43] *Knight* This isn't going to work. Yuck. ND hasn't taken Zaragoza yet, so we can't give RP horses yet.
[01:44] *Knight* Assuming Zaragoza falls, RP loses their access to horses, so they can't upgrade.
[01:46] *nye* damn
[01:47] *nye* i hate trying to help them while looking at screen shots with innaccurate tropps reports
[01:50] *Knight* We probably need to plan on waiting an extra turn for the upgrade, as much as I hate to do that.
[01:51] *Knight* Which raises the question of what to do with our gold this turn, spend it or hold onto it and wait to see where it's needed?
[01:51] *nye* i guess so, but... did they leave z empty?
[01:52] *Knight* That's my understanding. Vacate the city so injured troops don't die trying to hold it against hopeless odds.
[01:53] *Knight* The best unit they could have had in it was a 3/4 MedInf, and that wouldn't be likely to slow ND down at all.
[01:53] *Knight* (In terms of their willingness to attack.)
[01:54] *nye* ok
[01:54] *nye* well, your call. i am out of ideas for the moment. almost asleep
[01:57] *Knight* Question: would giving NM back to RP make GoW more likely or less likely to go after that instead of hitting our forces in Toledo?
[01:58] *Knight* We may want to let some of these issues simmer overnight on our forum, and I can finish the last little bit of our turn in the morning before I got to work.
[01:59] *Knight* (Finishing the last couple bits in the morning wouldn't be nearly as big a deal as playing the whole thing in the morning would.)
[02:00] *nye* that might be good, nathan
[02:00] *Knight* You're planning to post the log in our forum?
[02:00] *nye* yes
[02:00] *nye* all i would say about nm is
[02:01] *nye* it might work to our advantage to draw them there
[02:01] *nye* they may not move the the mountain 2 of toledo
[02:02] *nye* and if they move on it, then we will have their army where we want it, out in the open and wounded
[02:02] *nye* even if they take it, they lose their army
[02:03] *Knight* True. If they hit Toledo, they can pull back to a mountain afterward and be relatively safe. If they hit NM, they'll be sitting ducks.
[02:03] *nye* yes
[02:03] *Knight* Of course they could also mountain hop in an effort to go after Pamplona.
[02:03] *nye* that is true
[02:04] *nye* and we thought the mountains were unkind to us
[02:05] *nye* at what point do we drop the gloves and go after them?
[02:05] *Knight* Anyhow, let's call it a night and let the team discuss whether or not to give back NM and what to do about gold and Chivalry in the face of RP's probably being about to lose horses in the morning.
[02:06] *nye* ok
[02:06] *Knight* If we don't give NM back, I'm thinking rush the second half of a cat there, or maybe walls, depending on how likely we thing GoW is to hit it. (We might or might not be able to switch which of the two in the production phase.)
[02:06] *Knight* Goodnight.
[02:07] *nye* g'night
Session Close: Fri Aug 01 02:07:18 2003

[DeepO]

okay, so the open points are whether we give NM back to RP, and how to handle the chivalry now that we can't give horses?

The only real advantage I see in keeping NM is that we can rush a cat or pike there. There are other advantages (like gaining a couple of gold, or being able to defend the city easier) which are no real advantages, as it would favour us over the alliance, or can be corrected if needs to be.

If we give it to RP, though, there are other advantages:
- they receive some 20 gpt extra.
- they have a reasonable production center (their second best)
- it will keep Lego at ease
- it might draw GoW into the open.

So, my vote is clear: give NM back asap

I read in the log that GoW could move to NM8 next turn. Am I missing something here? I only saw the screenshots last night, and they are difficult to distinguish between forest and jungle, but I thought the closest they could come in 1 turn was to NM88? If NM8 is possible, RP should give it back the moment it is occupied. Otherwise, we can next turn put some troops there, to defend, while attacking them in the jungle.

Mountain hopping: something else I looked at last night, and deemed impossible (again, working from memory here). I thought they could just move their riders through the mountains, one tile at a time, but not 2 tiles... thus not going for the split before 2 turns from now. Maybe I'm mistaken...

As to chivalry / horses: unfortunate... but nothing really we could have done about that, except accepting Zaragosa. Bad timing of ND... it will have to wait one turn. In this case, I would favor not giving RP Chivalry, for timing purposes. If we now give Chivalry, RP won't be able to upgrade their horses next turn before build phase, and will have to upgrade them normally, thus only using them 3 turns from now. If we give it next turn, they can use the new knights immediately.

Gold: don't spend it, we're going to need it. And don't give it to RP either The reason is that if we want any chance with Lego to get Astro from them (we can forget we ever will receive Nav), we have to be able to trade banking to them, relatively soon even. In order to kepe to our 10-turn eta promised in last chat, we have to finish 9 turns from now, if I'm not mistaken. Our upgrade money will not be coming in so easily anymore.

And I would love to get Astro from them, it would make our invasions a lot easier, and also the defense against invasions...

DeepO