Turn 128, 10BC

[nbarclay]

Tempest could complete the Great Wall in six turns, at a cost of one knight and two and a half MedInfs. I like the idea, but I'm not sure how much of that is objective and how much is my hatred for wasting shields.

Regarding tricks to build non-iron units without cutting off our iron from our core, One intriguing option would be to cut off iron to our captured Voxian cities and rush most of the shields on warriors for upgrade. But that's a fair number of turns down the road, since we have huge numbers of WCs that still need upgrading, and we can get a clearer picture of how desperate we are for additional troops by then. Note also the conflict between upgrading units and researching; do we want to suspend research for the duration and forget about the Banking/Astronomy deal with Lego, or do we want to upgrade just enough forces to get momentum on our side (assuming we can in fact get the momentum) and then start pushing our research again?

[DeepO]

Ah, good point in iron to RP. But when the time comes, we should need to look into their economy, as they have a smaller one, and could perhaps gain from being without iron for a turn or 3.

DeepO

[DeepO]

research: I'd rather not wait to long with research, so no 20 more turns without research. But as long as we delay the deal for astronomy, I think we can get away with renegotiating the ETA a bit. We still have 3 turns before we should go to max research (without wasting gold), if we need more, we should decide now so that we can ask Lego. For the moment, we need them to be our friends, which will most likely stop once we actually take enemy cities instead of swapping with RP.

DeepO

[nbarclay]

The only way I can find to finish the Great Wall in five turns instead of six is to run Tempest at a two-food deficit during that time. (Asleep, did you find something better?) Still, that's probably worth it if we go for the GW. (We currently have 16 food stored there.) By the way, a university makes a perfect prebuild, and probably also a good fallback if someone surprises us and builds the Great Wall first.

[Aeson]

What is the ETA on Astronomy again... 10 more turns? We'd get another 340g before needing to start (at 8 turns with about even income?).

That would allow us to have 6 more upgrades right (170 + 340)?

[nbarclay]

Seven turns for us to research Banking at a small deficit, or eight at a little big larger surplus, at current troop and income levels. I'm not sure which it would end up being if we juggle the slider for exact break-even over the course of the research.

[DeepO]

eta on astro: 10 or 11 turns, according to Vondrack before he played last save. Meaning that as fast as possible we can have an extra 350 gold, if it is one turn later we can have an extra 530. If I count right, but they can offer it to us while we don't have it yet, so we could be strictly speaking one turn behind them...

Should be enough for another 386+350-60~=670 gold at a minimum

DeepO

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by nbarclay
The only way I can find to finish the Great Wall in five turns instead of six is to run Tempest at a two-food deficit during that time. (Asleep, did you find something better?) Still, that's probably worth it if we go for the GW. (We currently have 16 food stored there.) By the way, a university makes a perfect prebuild, and probably also a good fallback if someone surprises us and builds the Great Wall first.

Yeah, thats what I found, Tempest with a 2 food deficit. That switch doesn't seem to affect much else other than monsoon I think, Arashi is still on 2 turn pikes. 2 food deficit is fine, as it has 16 food in the granary.

Hmm. It could be that GoW is working on the Great Wall, switch from the G.Library, if someone threatens them or something. Best to leave as palace until turn before completion.

[nbarclay]

I'm thinking I'll use a university as a prebuild since the cost is exactly the same. That way it's easier to see how much time is left.

I'm thinking I probably ought to turn the luxury slider up a notch this turn, since the "war" for RP to grab our cats is going to disrupt our lux trades.

[Aeson]

Also, the war weariness for losing (possibly) 2 cities next turn would require the extra Lux. We would get war weariness bonuses for having war declared on us, but not sure if it will be enough to cancel out the bad.

[DeepO]

is it going to disrupt our happiness? They attack us, meaning negative WW for us, plus we gain an extra lux from Lego... it might be enough. When in doubt, turn it up, though

DeepO

[DeepO]

is negative WW cumulative? if both RP and GoW attack us...

DeepO

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by DeepO
is negative WW cumulative? if both RP and GoW attack us...

DeepO

not to mention ND. 3 civs attacking in one turn. da-yum

[nbarclay]

I just realized something. We'll also lose the luxuries we're getting from either or both of GoW and ND if they go ahead and attack. (Although we will presumably start geting a new one from Lego.) I think we need to run the luxury slider at 20% (up two notches from where it is now) until we're sure how the situation is going to shake out.

[DeepO]

well, I don't know if it is cumulative. But, is ND going to attack us? They can declare war to stop the lux trade, but otherwise we will probably attack them inside RPs territory first...

DeepO