RP, Our Vassals

[Aeson]

A new thread... turn thread again?

[Arrian]

Well, I assume Nathan will post the thread in here next, so I guess we'll see.

-Arrian

[nbarclay]

What it was, of all the lousy timing, was a Gathering Storm Intelligence Agency economic analysis, complete with a couple sentences of consideration of how GS/RP joint economic strength would presumably compare with GoW/ND joint economic strength in their golden ages. I caught it within seconds, but I'm not sure from the counts of how many times it was read whether I caught it in time or whether one person might have seen it. (I don't think more than one is possible, but I wouldn't quite be willing to stake my life on two being impossible.) I really hope I didn't blow the whole show with that.

[Arrian]

Oh my.

Oh my oh my.

I really hope so too.

Beta seemed to be right there on it...

-Arrian

[ManicStarSeed]

First Steps for our Vassal

moved to diplomacy comments thread

[Aeson]

So do we have the save now? Or was this from last save?

If we want to go public with the alliance, it shouldn't hurt us. Our production capacity and such is good intel for anyone who saw it, but could be figured out from the maps anyways. The main bit of info would be that we are considering RP/GS vs ND/GoW. If we publicly ally with RP, then that's not an issue.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Arrian
Oh, before I forget, I have a suggestion for Roleplay's defense (immediate):

I note that Zaragosa is on a river, and is (or was, based on the last screenshot I have) at size 6, with walls.

Is the wall bug still in the latest patch? If so, and if RP can get a worker up there prior to ND's main attack, they should boost it to size 7. That way, their defenders get a 50% wall bonus, plus a 50% city bonus, plus the 25% fortification bonus. That's a defense of 6.75, IIRC.

Edit: same with Toledo, too, btw (no walls, but size 6 as of my last screenie).

-Arrian

Sorry, what with all that's being discussed, I didn't want this to get lost... am I wrong about the wall bug being in v. 1.21? Or am I right, and could we possibly help RP beef up their 1st line of defense?

-Arrian

[notyoueither]

Arrian, I have noted the suggestion and intend to pass it on. They can quickly test for it. They have some reason to do so.

Off to IRC...

[Arrian]

Good. Regardless of our final decision, we want ND to bleed.

-Arrian

[Aeson]

I think we should avoid the term vassal (or anything similar) in all agreements. Let the conditions define the nature of the relationship, don't label it.

Also remember that RP's main goal right now is to have fun. We should make this as fun for them as possible... while still getting what we need.

Something along the lines of playing up the "coming to RP's aid and protect the Holy Land", "land grants for the GS crusaders"... the whole RP thing. If we do it right, I think RP can be trusted just about completely. If we make this annoying for them, they can be trusted to rebel (or at leats want to) at some point.

[Arrian]

Good point, Aeson. Though "vassal" has a roleplay connotation as well, but a somewhat negative one.

Let's run with the "Grand Alliance" angle, avoid the term "vassal" and try to avoid sounding at all arrogant if and when we give strategic advice. In other words, let's keep it on the level of advice, not orders.

-Arrian

[notyoueither]

Crusaders? I love a good crusade!

Aeson captured my feelings precisely and in few words.

[ManicStarSeed]

I like the Grand Alliance too.

I read Arnelos' proposal... Seems pretty good. I am afraid to lock into anything for the game. I would perfer a clause that says athe we can look at it every 20-50 turns and mutually agree to ammend it.

BTW, It is really odd that RP is likely gonna be a long-term ally. The whole energy, so far was that they were too annoying to want to deal with.

Once we tangle fates, we will have to negotitate personalities... Something we do not really have to do in GS

Mss

[notyoueither]

Oops. Now we're jacking the tactics thread with the diplomacy...

btw, I am on Poly IRC.

/join #GStalk merlin

to join me.

[asleepathewheel]

Aeson, nye, OctavianX and I had a lenghty chat last night and here is a bit of what we discussed.

Operation Magic Catapult Ride

We move all units out of Inchon (or elipolis, matters not) then send as accepted to RP. Their turn, they move their galley into the city, disembark, declare war and capture the 6 catapults in the area. They move the cats and their unit back to the city (if its a fast mover) and move the galley north to hunt for GoW ships. They offer peace and the city back to us as accepted and boom, their units including the new cats are in Pomplona. Two moves later they are in zaragosa, able to hit the second turn.

Note: we would also have to reestablish the luxury trades after this.

Also, Aeson created a possible land division of Bob, with the pink dots being RP. We eventually decided amongst ourselves that we should grant them more of southern bob (and less of northern) with the goal being to keep the ratio of tiles either 2 or 3 to 1, covering the entirety of bob/stormia. this is a good start, helps to visualize the tile count.

also, due to the jungle, we could help them out with our industrious workers. The goal is to keep RP happy, but not too happy.



We discussed more, but much was repetitive of what has already been posted. Unfortunately I used the java chat room, meaning I lost 75% of what we discussed, and I am very tired and my memory is shot.