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**FrustratedPoet** · July 7, 2003, 09:52

Is there any realistic chance of us getting a Culture victory from building lots of wonders in Hurricane? It's not a victory condition I ever aim for so I don't really appreciate the kind of things that are required.

**Shiber** · July 7, 2003, 10:02

Market + Library ASAP. Then start Copernicus prebuild.

Definitely. This should be a priority over any courthouses in any lousy desert towns.
Question: where do we plan to build Smith's?

**FrustratedPoet** · July 7, 2003, 10:05

Originally posted by Shiber
Question: where do we plan to build Smith's?

Madrid.

**DeepO** · July 7, 2003, 10:16

Shiber, we have little hope of getting a 20,000 victory win in Hurricane. The Colossus is a good wonder, but we need more culture points, we should get to around 100 per turn if we want to win. Currently we would be about 10, I guess, so that's far off

Oh, and I like Madrid too

DeepO

**Harovan** · July 7, 2003, 10:22

Culture victory? Is there something with my ears? We are the Gathering Storm, heathens, not the Friends of the Italian Opera.

**DeepO** · July 7, 2003, 10:36

So... SR... what should be our first target then? RP?

DeepO

**Harovan** · July 7, 2003, 10:41

We're in a nice window of opportunity regarding RP. They grabbed an enormous chunk of land and have so far been unable to settle it. They're still REXing and therefor military weak. Once they got it settled and have a couple of barracks, which produce a considerable amount of shields, they won't be such a soft target as they ought to be now.

I'm serious this time.

**Arrian** · July 7, 2003, 10:46

Yeah, culture victory is almost surely a no-go at this point. You generally need an early temple, library, AND multiple wonders for that. I don't think I've ever won via 20,000 culture in 1 city, actually. I can only remember 1 game where it was even possible (won via SS first, though), and Thebes was pumping out ~100 culture per turn.

Still, it's pretty cool that we have the only city in the world with more than 1 wonder.

-Arrian

**Arrian** · July 7, 2003, 10:51

Oh, and SR, I'm with you this time.

Frankly, I'd be up for setting up an alliance with GoW for a war of aggression vs. south Bob. GoW eats ND, we eat RP.

Whaddya say? Up for it?

-Arrian

**Shiber** · July 7, 2003, 10:55

You guys got me wrong. FP posted ahead of me while I was typing my reply to Arrian's post in the previous page.
I edited and added the quote to prevent any more misunderstandings.

**Harovan** · July 7, 2003, 10:55

I'm all for it, but it needs a lot of diplomatic (alliance) and military (projection of power) preparations. Not sure how the other senators react. I predict a frenetical yes from the big T, but as to the others, I don't know.

**FrustratedPoet** · July 7, 2003, 10:59

Originally posted by Arrian
Yeah, culture victory is almost surely a no-go at this point. You generally need an early temple, library, AND multiple wonders for that. I don't think I've ever won via 20,000 culture in 1 city, actually. I can only remember 1 game where it was even possible (won via SS first, though), and Thebes was pumping out ~100 culture per turn.

Yikes.

I didn't realise you needed that much. So yeah, I can pretty much forget about that then.

**nbarclay** · July 7, 2003, 11:03

I still say that invading Bob while Bob is at peace would be asking to get ganged up on.

**Arrian** · July 7, 2003, 11:04

I've been trying to get the military preparations underway (Arrian's 1st rule of warfare...).

I think we would need a full-fledged alliance with GoW, and agree to a peacetime border before beginning the war. We should probably also try for at least a 20-turn NAP starting @ the conclusion of the war.

The question is, when to begin? Does ND have Chivalry? IIRC, they were researching Engineering. If GoW has their Riders, but ND doesn't have Ansars, that's a huge advantage, and we (meaning this potential alliance of GS+GoW) should act on it.

-Arrian

**vulture** · July 7, 2003, 11:21

A unilateral invasion of one Bob civ by us would have us at war with all three of them (although it may just be for show from GoW). With an alliance with GoW, it doesn't really matter what ND and RP think about it since they are going to be the targets, although we can continue to trade with ND. Given our comments about supplying iron to Vox at the end of the war, ND might take a dim view of us supplying GoW with iron, which we'd need to do in the event of an alliance between us. GoW would have to accept that we'd expect to keep territory conquered from RP if things go well.

The problem here is timing. If we are going to be the active participants, we need mutual trust between us and GoW that we will both attack at the same time. It would be easy for GoW to set us up by organising the alliance, warning ND and RP what is coming, and we end up on the wrong end of the dog pile, with GoW hoping to capitalise on betraying the triple alliance later by taking a chunk out of ND. Conversely, will GoW be happy to be the first ones to declare war, knowing there is a danger we'll leave them to fend for themselves for a while before jumping in to take lots of badly defended territory when the war has worn everyone down.

I've gone into thinking out loud mode, so this may not have any coherent point any more.

Question: can we keep it as two, two way fights (us vs RP, GoW vs ND), or will there be mutual declerations of war everywhere to complicate matters.

Or is it worth trying to arrange a 3 way attack on RP?

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