Tea with GoW and Our Destiny, how the game will run

[notyoueither]

From the chat with GoW last night.

Here is the crucial bit. GoW continually bring it up.

*MasterZen* what would you do if we and RP allied against ND?

*MasterZen* what would you do if we and ND allied against RP?

*MasterZen* what would you do if ND and RP allied against us?

They are asking our blessing for a course of action on Bob. They do not want to start a two on one to have us ride to the rescue of the picked on one. That could result in a stalemate, and Lego walking along with the game.

These guys have a very well developed sense of where they are going. Deal with Bob, then proceed with enlarged armies to Lego. After that, then the game is open for either of 2 or 3 cooperative civs to win. It becomes a new game at that point.

Now, the questions for us. Do we agree that the game should proceed from a settling of tensions on Bob accomplished by the trimming or elimination of one civ and then proceed to a trimming of Lego? If we adopt this view, then we have a ready made ally in GoW, since we would be adopting their thinking.

Assuming that we agree with GoW and throw in with them the second question is, how soon do we want to see war break out on Bob? This is a dilemma. We need time to assimilate North Stormia and build infrastructure in the core. On the other hand, as time goes by our biggest target on Bob grows stronger and stronger (RP). Also, with every turn that passes Lego gets a turn closer to RRs. RRs for Lego are not going to happen soon, but that eventuality does set a deadline for 'easy' trimming of the builders.

Assuming that we decide to go down this path, then we should do some rapid back channel diplomacy. I would like to chat with MZ 'informally'. I could discuss hypotheticals without commiting GS to anything, and we can see if our two agendas do really match up.

Time is the issue here. There is not much more of it before other teams' plans are solidified and decisions taken that will be difficult to convince them out of. If GoW do not find a responsive audience here with this in a reasonable period of time, they will move on and try to find other plans with other civs.

It is hard to imagine a bigger issue for us in this era. I think it rates it's own thread.

[OPD]

One thing that worries me is that if GoW have a long term plan in place for how they are going to win, taking out someone on bob then lego... then that are likely to have a plan in place to take us out of the picture at some point. Probably after we have helped them hit lego, if they ally strongly enough with the other civ left on bob. I also think that other nations have some sort of idea of how they are going to take us out of the picture as some point aswell. For example say GoW and RP hit ND with our help then the three of us take on lego then RP and GoW take us out and play the 2 horse race. It is plausable that such an agreement is already in place.

One scenario that has appealed to me more and more over the last few days is agreeing to long term NAP with every nation on bob and completely staying out of things. Then going after lego in a big way just by ourselves. There are of course lots of issues with this, we probably don't have a direct crossing, but if we could take a sizeable chuck of the land on lego soon enough (time is probably the important factor) how would we compare to the (probably 2) civs left on bob.

Then perhaps if we were to take the whole of lego land would we be in the position where we are untouchabe by 2 civs left on bob working together against us.

That is what we should be shooting for IMO, there will come a point when being in the lead will mean that all the other civs will band together to defeat you. Assuming we are going to be the one in the lead we need to be so far along that once this point is reached we can't be touched.

I think this is where pbem experience will come in handy, I havn't been in such a position in a pbem myself but I'm pretty sure others here have.

[Octavian X]

From my point of view, the upcoming war on Bob will be a deciding factor in which civ becomes master of the continent. From my point of view, the any team that gains the most power on Bob will then turn it's sights on us.

Therefore, I agree with OPD. The friendlier we are with Bob, the better. The two winners of a Bobian war will become threats to our victory in the long run. If would serve us best to stay out of their quarrels.

Meanwhile, we need to keep our own military up. We can, starting ASAP, prepare for an invasion of Legoland, the last potential threat, by scouting their island.

[Arrian]

I think the best case is GS+GoW vs. RP+ND.

GoW gets NDs land, and we get RPs. Yeah, I could deal with that.

-Arrian

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Octavian X
The friendlier we are with Bob, the better. The two winners of a Bobian war will become threats to our victory in the long run. If would serve us best to stay out of their quarrels.

That's just the point. Standing by while either RP and GoW take out ND, or while ND takes out GoW with support from RP, leaves us with two titans on Bob, each capable of outproducing us, and collectively snuffing us. We cannot stand by and allow there to be just 2 civs on Bob while we gain nothing.

The best case would be GoW and ND vs RP, with us landing and taking SE Spain. It would be ideal Palace jump material, and could give us the edge we need to stay ahead far enough that we cannot be assailed.

[zeit]

How about RP+GoW against ND, in which we strike exactly at the right time against RP- making sure they are no longer able to be a threat (much like GoW wishes to be done to Lego, and like have envisioned it myself). This gives GoW the most of Bob, and us a nice chunk of pre-RP territory. Now, making it look like GoW and GS are on the brink of war won't be terribly hard, and unless Lego will prepare itself for this, we could strike together quite succesfuly, and victory in the name of the 2-G's!

After all, if RP decides to join against any other civ, I just can't see them not keeping a sizable force around to guard from us, and since any neighbor besides a cooperating one won't make Bob any more peaceful (especially not after a 2 vs 1 war, with two large, intact armies running around).

But, the questions that come agains are those of trust as well as "what if's", like what if Lego finds out, or what if things on Bob don't go as planned, turn against us. As well as the basic question: will this long-term plan, when comes to fruition (e.g. after the dust on Bob settles) will still be desirable? perhaps we or GoW figure we want something else, like domination on Bob...