The Colossus

[Shiber]

It's too quiet. Let's get some discussion going.
Do we want to build the Colossus? When? Where?

[Shiber]

AFAIK, everyone in this team wants to build the Colossus, and to build it in Hurricane, but under different conditions.

Most of the team, I gather, would rather start the Colossus after we've launched our offensive against Vox and taken D'Ville or some other town. They make a good point, that dedicating Hurricane to the Colossus for a while means 7 less pikemen.
But are those 7 pikes really needed? Would the construction of these 7 pikes neglect our goals in the long run, while providing little return in the short-middle run (war with Vox)?

We already have 13 vet pikemen, and we'll have 2 more next turn. Once we get rid of the two main Voxian stacks (the SS one and the Arashi/Tempest one), all of these pikes will be freed up and we'll be able to use most of them in our offensive. But Chivalry is coming up, and eventually we'll want to make some upgrades - I assume that we'll want to take D'Ville with pike-medinf stacks, but most of the rest of the job will be done with knights. Pikes will then be useless on the attack because they can't keep up with the knights, and only useful for defending newly-captured towns and our coasts. IMHO we have enough pikes for these jobs.

While we're building units and burning our GA on military, Lego are expanding peacefully. They have plenty of land, they are commercial and industrious and they have the Pyramids. Soon, if we don't act, they may have the Colossus and then trigger their GA. Imagine Lego getting a GA and using the full 20 turns on infrastructure - will we ever be able to catch up?

What is more likely - that we'll really need those extra 7 pikemen, or that we might lose the economical race in the long run to Lego if we allow them to get their GA now?

I think that the war has turned over to our side. Soon, possibly in a matter of two turns (only 7 more successful cat attacks until the Arashi stack goes down to 1HP all), Vox will lose 7 immortals (or even earlier, if Vox decides to step off of the mountains or attack Arashi or Tempest). Then, our catapults will shift to the SS theatre and remove 5 more Voxian immortals. Though it usually pays to be paranoid, I think that we are enough on the safe side now. We must look at farther goals, such as beating Lego in the economical race.

To sum up - let's start the Colossus next turn. We're safe from Vox, who is going to be 7 immortals shorter in two or three turns and short of another 5 immortals in ten turns, maybe less. Let's do ourselves a favor and prevent Lego Land from getting a peaceful GA right now.

[Arrian]

I'd like to get a turn or two of horsemen pumped out of EotS and Hurricane and then switch Hurricane over to the Colossus.

But I really do want that wonder.

-Arrian

[Randolph]

Maybe the Colossus could also be used as a bargaining chip with lego? If they really want it they might be willing to make some concessions if we don't compete for it. This would be particularly good if we think they'll beat us to it anyway.

[Shiber]

That could work... but it would look like blackmail. Actually, it is blackmail.
It would spoil our relationship in the long run.

Let's start building the Colossus now. We can get those two horses out of other cities in time if we ask GoW not to send us Chivalry immediately but to allow us to build some more mounted units for upgrades first.

[Arrian]

I agree with Shiber re: Lego.

But as much as I like the Colossus, I still think we want a turn or two of horsemen out of Hurricane first.

-Arrian

[Shiber]

It's a race for the Colossus, and two turns could mean the difference between getting the Colossus and depriving Lego of a peaceful GA (the next commercial wonder is in the next era IIRC) and giving the GA to Lego, allowing them to open a huge gap between us that will just get wider and wider with time.
I understand Arrian's concerns, but I vote for facing this important issue and starting the Colossus right now.

[Randolph]

Blackmail? I certainly wouldn't see it that way. Agreeing to not go after the Colossus, something that we want, in exchange for the same deal on another wonder, or other concessions seems reasonable to me. but whatever.

[Shiber]

Ohh, I got the impression that we were going to confront them and tell them that we're going to steal their peaceful GA unless they pay us.
Dividing wonders sounds like a good idea, but let's not contact them before we've started the Colossus. If they aren't building it yet, we certainly don't want to give them any ideas that we might beat them to it.

[zeit]

We're probably not the only ones building wonders- so dividing wonders doesn't seem like a good idea. Telling Lego we're gonna build it also has the risk of them making more effort to complete it.

And I'd also like to see Hurricane cranks out just a few more units-just like WW2- with the pace this war is running, winning will be a matter of outproducing and "out-destroying" the enemy. those few more units could help us end this war quicker, but we definitely need the commerce boost, and more importantly, prevent a peaceful Lego GA.

[Theseus]

I had the same reaction.... it ain't about Pikes, man, it's about FASTMOVERS.

OTOH, how quickly can we build the Colossus? If it's only 6-7 turns, I say we go for it... then pump out Knights.

[Aeson]

It's 7 turns to build the Collosus. We could save a few more food in Hurricane while building it too, as we have a spare 10 shields (30 x 7 = 210).

[Theseus]

It's going to take minimum 4-5 turns just to deal with Vox' troops in our territory, much less those in the mountains SE of D-ville.

THEN, we need to prep for the march north, as well as Inchon and other special forces actions.

I'm sold... build the Colossus NOW. Delaying the later attacks for 200 shields of aggregate production (i.e., not just from Hurricane) is no biggie, maybe 3 turns which we will need for staging time anyway.

Good call, Shiber.

[DeepO]

We won't get it, I'm sure... but it looks like we can take the risk, so why not try it

If we go for it, I would switch right now, even in preproduction if possible to save another turn. We don't seem to need the pikes or horses, we can manage with our other cities (in total, it might delay the war by a turn or so, though). Plus, we need backup, I wouldn't mind switching to e.g. the GLib or the hanging gardens if we would fail (if we can buy Monarchy, of course).

DeepO

[Theseus]

Good point... back-up plan.

Is the Colossus or the GLib the answer to Lego? Let's us go military for a while?