The Whore of Babylon Speaks - GoW Official Statement

[notyoueither]

Because I'm sure you would not like it if people started blasting GS

What would have changed?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Master Zen


Sadly I do not play poker and have no clue about how the game is played (I definitely should learn though), but I definitely undertand the metaphor.

I would definitely call it cheesy, and perhaps I would raise a word or two but for one simple reason: it involves money, i.e. a tangiable prize, unlike this demo game which we're supposed to be playing for fun

You ****ing *******.

Some people dumped a lot more than money on this game.

People dumped a **** load of time, and themselves, ultimately.

You think it doesn't matter because it isn't money?

You're pathetic.

[Master Zen]

Leave it to nye to continue b*tching after everybody seemed to be getting along again.

The only one who's pathetic is you pal. Here's 20g, get a f*cking life.

[Krill]

MZ, be fair. You did exactly the same thing when Beta replyed...

[Master Zen]

I don't know what you're talking about Krill, please quote to where I insulted Beta or anyone else on that level.

[Krill]

Originally posted by NYE

Originally posted by MZ
As to whether "two teams knew it was possible, and everyone else played on under another set of assumptions." honestly I think that's a weak argument.

Every team had to play under the assumption that X and Y teams could possibly be allied against them. It changes nothing that the two last standing teams simply decide to not fight and share the victory.

I still have not heard a shred of conclusive evidence that this game would have been any difference from a shared victory or a "ally until we destroy everyone else and then duke it out among ourselves" which apparently would have been a valid strategy as far as most arguments here are concerned.

How about, GoW would have been wiped out, and not Lego?

Originally posted by MZ
I find it rather ironic that despite now being accused as the epitome of cheese, GoW actually voted against most of the exploits which Lego and GS were adamantly in favor, particularly that borderline-cheating tactic which is F1/City Arrows (which IIRC has been banned from every other demogame).

GS and Lego's excuse: that it permits a broader array of strategies like hiding builds and last-minute changes, etc.

Of course, since both actively wanted to use such a trick to cover up wonder builds it was... well... not deemed "cheese", it was deemed "strategy"

That last post is fairly b!tchy in my opinion...but yes, I do agree that it would be for the best if we all dropped these points

[Ennet]

Well we'll go and win by a game mechanic now so everyone's happy so this discussion is pretty much dropped. And for it being a combined victory or not, it does not matter at all. If ND or we win matters little to me as the other team will know that they "let" the other team win the game even if they are officialy not winning the game together. There are no prizes to be awarded but the fun we get out of this game, and both sides in this argument are removing the fun for all particants.

[Krill]

just a fyi, my comment was not aimed at anything in game, it was aimed more at MZs' response to NYE.

[Hot_Enamel]

I am amazed that you can even try to compare those two posts

One was a personal attack
The other was ... "b1tchy" ???

[Beta]

For the record, I never felt I was personally attacked earlier in this thread. I was debating the issue - I was not upset with any individual or team.

That being said - that last NYE-MZ exchange has reached a new low. Time to step back and take a collective deep breath ...maybe even some apologies???

[Krill]

H_E, all of not youeithers' post prior to the final post are perfectly acceptable. I do agree that the last post was unacceptable, however, but maybe you and MZ will understand that there are some of us who care for the game, not because there is money involved, but because of our love of the game. Have someone tell you that a game, which you poured two years of your life into, is unimportant, and many will find it insulting.

Look at what Vondrack wrote when GS broke though the blockade. "It drives one almost to tears - the whole 2-year game now looks so very absurd to us."

---

All I ask is for everybody, from all teams, to please refrain from insults, mudslinging and any more debates on the merits of shared victory. We have talked about, debated, as well as argued about it enough, as MZ posted yesterday (or was it the day before?).

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Krill
just a fyi, my comment was not aimed at anything in game, it was aimed more at MZs' response to NYE.

I'm surprised that you choose to raise a word about my response (and a previous one) and say nothing whatsoever about nye's totally unacceptable behavior. One thing is "team spirit" Krill because I suspect you did because he is your teammate, another entirely different thing is indirectly condoning the tactlessness and in-civility which nye frequently resorts to. All the more shameful because this discussion was long over until he decided to ressurrect it to pour some of the bitterness which he apparently has in surplus.

If I hear another such remark from nye he's going straight to my ignore list, in the meantime he's pretty much lost any ounce of respect I once had for him.

-MZ

[Master Zen]

Btw, all of us poured contless hours into the game but did it out of our own free will. There was no prize. Saying that all these years were wasted just because some team lost is to defeat the entire purpose of what this demogame was meant for: to learn, to experiment, and to have fun.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Master Zen
If I hear another such remark from nye he's going straight to my ignore list, in the meantime he's pretty much lost any ounce of respect I once had for him.

Unfortunately, nye cannot do the same. Neither can I, nor anybody else. You, being an admin/moderator, cannot be put on anyone's ignore list.

So, perhaps it may be a good idea to use your ignore list right away, even if temporarily, and help the flames die out.

[Krill]

Originally posted by Krill
H_E, all of notyoueithers' post prior to the final post are perfectly acceptable. I do agree that the last post was unacceptable, however, but maybe you and MZ will understand that there are some of us who care for the game, not because there is money involved, but because of our love of the game. Have someone tell you that a game, which you poured two years of your life into, is unimportant, and many will find it insulting.

I do not condone NYEs' personal attacks, nor are they necessary. And please put NYE on your ignore list, as hopefully it will lead to the beginning of a cool down, for both of you. (edit: what Vondrack said)

---

Again, as Aeson has already pointed out, you are putting words into other peoples mouths.

Saying that all these years were wasted just because some team lost is to defeat the entire purpose of what this demogame was meant for: to learn, to experiment, and to have fun.

I have not said that the time spent on this game was wasted, and I do not think that, either. When I joined GS in March 2004, I was barely able to hold my own on emperor, C3C, but know I can beat it via OCC easily. I have made new friends, and that is something that I have had difficulty doing for most of my life. I have enjoyed myself, and will continue to do so so long as this b!tchyness does not get out of hand. I am willing to forgive and forget this incident, MZ, so long as we can agree to drop it.

Are you willing to forgive, and forget?