Serious Problem with GhengisFarb

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Ming
I will grant you that the game hasn't started... however, it's a matter of principle.

In Civ II MP games, anybody "CAN" load up the map and look. The point is, even though we can, we don't.
It's a matter of trust.

Again... saying that you can, therefore you do, is a lame excuse if you ask me. It shows the true nature of the character.

Yes I agree, I know you're not a Civ3er but perhaps you know that Civ3 PBEMs are plagued with bugs which allow pretty much anyone to access the maps and units of other civs. Like you say, it is a matter of principle not to cheat this way besides the fact that it is also just not fun!

I think that if he really wanted to do harm, he just would have lurked and not posted, that way no-one would have known he had access to the forums. However what worries me is if he or anyone else might have had access to the ISDG forum or perhaps some other of the original PTWDG forums.

EDIT: is there a way to know which people are browsing a forum? I know most boards have this feature, although perhaps it is purposely ommitted in Poly to save queries... especially considering how slow the site can get on occassion...

[Ming]

I not only can see what forum they are browsing, I can see what threads they are looking at... posting on... or editing... or whatever. Any Mod can.

What bothers me here is that "somebody" changed his permissions to be able to view all the forums... I was shocked to see that when I checked his account.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Ming
I not only can see what forum they are browsing, I can see what threads they are looking at... posting on... or editing... or whatever. Any Mod can.

I meant the users, some boards you can see what people are browsing each forum, I know vB has this feature. That way if you see someone browsing a private forum that you know he is not a member of you can bring up the issue. It's impossible to have the mods checking everything at every moment but the users can do this for them. I know I'd scream bloody murder if I saw someone who wasn't in the ISDG or in my GoW team browing our forum...

What bothers me here is that "somebody" changed his permissions to be able to view all the forums... I was shocked to see that when I checked his account.

With the database problems Poly has had, do you think perhaps it had accidentaly reset his permissions or something? Also I know he had asked for a change in modship for the Glory of War forum at around the same time, perhaps something got screwed up in that process... btw, by "all forums" do you mean all private forums or just the PTWDG II ones?

[Ming]

As to the first... it slows the server to show who is browsing specific forums like you have seen at other sites. The way things are going now, not a good idea

As far as it being a poly problem, nahhh... it takes somebody with rights to make that kind of change. Could somebody have done it accidently... maybe... but that's a "tough" mistake to make. And as far as his access.. it only looked like the game II forums.

[Togas]

Bigfree isn't lieing and saying he is is really low.

I don't understand why GF would actively try to enter the private forums, read the threads, and post replies to them. We have replies in 2 different threads from GF starting from the 16th and then again on the 18th.

When it happened on the 16th we asked him to stop with posts in the thread and thought that it was just a silly prank. When it happened on the 18th, BigFree and others on the team were definately not pleased.

BigFree is our leader and brought this matter forward in that capacity.

--Togas

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Ming
As to the first... it slows the server to show who is browsing specific forums like you have seen at other sites. The way things are going now, not a good idea

speaking of which, any insider news on why the server's having trouble?

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by alva

I almost resigned from the first PTW game due to well known reasons, but so far I stayed, mainly due to improving circomstances, but for other reasons aswell (time invested being one).
However I'm NOT going to be as patient with this one, so if we can't get along and play in a gentleman fashion I'm out.

I agree. Some people here seem intent on turning these games into their own private soap operas and disrupting things for everyone else.

For the record, GF posted in our forum too (twice I think), but I didn't really care since the game hadn't started. It was just a bit of fun. We didn't specifically ask him to leave either - there seemed no point since we assumed the access problems would be solved soon anyway.However, if he had specifically been given authorisation to all forums (I didn't authorise him for our forum, that's for damn sure) then that changes things.

Did GF know he had been authorised for all forums?

And who has the kind of power to do that? Presumably only Mark, Dan and Ming....

[OPD]

Ghengis posted on our forum too. Although I told him to get the hell out I don't really see it as that big of a deal, he's not the kind of person to cheat. If anything he just alerted us to to the fact that the forums may not be secure, so not to post secret stuff.

[BigFree]

What if secret stuff was already there?

There's a problem with a "no harm, no foul" stance. People still get punnished for crimes even if no one was harmed, as it should be.

It is a matter of honor and trust that I feel was violated, for the most part; whether or not he will use any information to cheat is a question only he can answer.

If he was simply testing "Security", he could have simply posted in this forum about it or started a new thread. He did not. He posted in two different threads in our private forum! If he thought it was a joke, I am not laughing.

To stay away from another teams private forums, security loophole or not, goes towards a persons character; and in this case, it does not speak well for GF, IMO.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by BigFree
What if secret stuff was already there?

There's a problem with a "no harm, no foul" stance. People still get punnished for crimes even if no one was harmed, as it should be.

It is a matter of honor and trust that I feel was violated, for the most part; whether or not he will use any information to cheat is a question only he can answer.

If he was simply testing "Security", he could have simply posted in this forum about it or started a new thread. He did not. He posted in two different threads in our private forum! If he thought it was a joke, I am not laughing.

To stay away from another teams private forums, security loophole or not, goes towards a persons character; and in this case, it does not speak well for GF, IMO.

If you had secret stuff in your forum then it shows how clueless you have been. The PTW II forums have had the same backdoor since GodKing discovered it. I know nothing about these permissions Ming spoke of, the backddoor only alllows you to access the last forum posted in. There is no ability for the person who breaks in to search through forums or pages it is a simple glitch that needs to be fixed.

The other teams aren't posting secret stuff, I know the team I was on before I was forced to resign from Demo Games is holding off discussing secret stuff until the forums are secure, if I had realized your team had secret stuff I wouldn't have tried to test it. Honestly, to my knowledge none of the other teams are posting any secret stuff. The only things I saw was Cake or Death polling over Cake or Death, Sunshine discussing what they should name their cities.

I understand that Ming wants everyone to not access the Private Forums out of principle. But if Apolyton isn't going to make the forums private because they want us to not access them out of principle why did they give us private forums in the first place? They should have just left us our threads and said don't look at these if you are not on the team.

It would accomplish the same thing.

I haven't tested the access since Ming told me not to, but I can bet its still accessible to everyone unless someone has fixed the forum bugs.

[BigFree]

GF, you wouldn't know if other teams are posting secret stuff or not unless you asked them. You never asked me or anyone on team Sunshine. For you to assume that it would be otherwise shows how callous your actions were.

As far as my being "clueless", yes, I had no idea someone could use a "backdoor" to gain entry into our forum. But why would I expect such a thing? What kind of person goes around looking for such "backdoors"? I wouldn't think anyone assigned you that task on behalf of the people who run this site.

AND, if you can't understand doing things (or not doing them as this is the case) out of principle, then you have no idea about codes of ethics or honor.

My father once told me that locks were basically to keep honest people honest; for a determined thief would find a way in anyhow.

[Hot_Enamel]

For a game that was supposed to be focussed on having fun ... we have had a wonderful start.

[Hot Mustard]

Originally posted by Hot_Enamel
For a game that was supposed to be focussed on having fun ... we have had a wonderful start.

Agreed.

I'm not on anyone's side, but hasn't everyone heard the expression, "No harm, no foul."?

GodKing posted in our forum to let us know that it wasn't secure, and I was glad that he demonstrated it. As a result, we have discussed nothing other than what we should use for civ customizations (Name, Title, etc).

Anyways, GF has pulled out of everything now, so it doesn't matter.

What does matter is that the security problem be solved, and despite several postings by Ming in this thread, I have yet to hear that it has been...

[Ming]

GF... Try again... I want to see if it's just a matter of permissions... or if other action is needed.

[Arrian]

:sigh:

-Arrian