Save Game Thread

[Aqualung71]

If we are micromanaging to the max and researching at high rates so our cashflow is negative, I'll be damned if I'll accept somebody pressing "enter" on our turn forcing us into the red and losing an expensive Granary. That is simply too much of a penalty to wear for a little tardiness

[snoopy369]

Turn Skipping

I believe we should consider amending the turn rule in the following way:


The turn limit is 12 hours from the end of the last team's turn limit, before anyone is skipped.


IE, you get 24 hours from the start of the last person's turn. As the teams were set up to ensure they could play the turns in succession, there should be no problem with teams being unable to play the turn during their time-frame. It also prevents using the turn skipping as a weapon.

Example:
* Team Conquest receives the turn at 06:00 GMT on 18 Feb. They play the turn at 07:15 GMT and send it on to Euphorica.

Euphorica has a 12 hour 'limit' until 19:15, in theory, but is not skipped until 06:00 GMT on 19 Feb (24 hours from the start of Conquest's turn).

They then send it at 20:10 to Team BOH. (on 18 Feb)

Then team BOH has a 'limit' until 8:10 on 19 Feb (12 hours later), 12 hours later (strictly).

(Now, the rule could also be amended to be "12 hours from the 'skip time' of the previous team's turn", which would in this case give BOH until 18:00 GMT to play the turn.)

This rule would ensure the game is always running at a minimum of 3 days/round (12 hours * 6 teams), but there is still a (slight) chance of people getting skipped, as in the (presumably rare) situation like this one. I'm not sure if there are any real situations which would come up like this - but it's still technically possible. To be used aggressively, it would require 2 teams conspiring to break the rules.

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Another thing to consider is that perhaps we could amend the rule to be:


Your team may post a time frame of at least 8 hours in which you can play the save. If your deadline does not fall into this time frame for at least 2 hours, then the deadline is extended to include at least 2 hours of this time limit.


In the previous example, Euphorica has given a 'time frame' of 1900 to 0300 GMT.

They recieved the save at 07:15 GMT, and the "deadline" extended to 19:15 GMT, only 15 minutes in their timeframe. Thus, the deadline is extended to 21:00 GMT.

They then send the save on at 17:30 GMT, to BOH, whose time frame is 0800-1600. Their deadline would extend to ... 05:30 GMT, but would be extended to 1000 GMT. Etc.

(Of course the teams were set up hopefully to not have this sort of thing happen - their play times should hopefully overlap in a positive, not negative, way, like this one did.)

This ensures EVERY team is guaranteed to get it during their timeframe of playability (and the 8 hour amount can be increased to 12 hours or something if people can agree on all having a 12 hour period, which would be better imo). However, it can slow the game down some.

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Any thoughts?

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Aqualung71
If we are micromanaging to the max and researching at high rates so our cashflow is negative, I'll be damned if I'll accept somebody pressing "enter" on our turn forcing us into the red and losing an expensive Granary. That is simply too much of a penalty to wear for a little tardiness

Nonetheless the six team captains agreed to a 12 hour turn limit (4 votes to 2). I have to assume a strict, or at least reasonably strict, enforcement was implied by such a vote. As has been stated by others, this really works out to nearly 3 days to consider your actions (unless everyone is playing quickly, in which case you still are taking much longer than anyone else). If you're micromanaging that much, you should be deciding many turns in advance what to do anyhow. I know my team is doing so anyway...

Nonetheless I agree that a strict 12 hour limit can be harmful in some rare cases; see above.

[Paddy]

also on that, the admins have stated that if the team notifies them about a delay then all is good

we all have amaziung internet access....

[Aqualung71]

Ok then.

I wish to notify the administrators that our team, at some indeterminate place in the foggy sands of time, shall be delayed in playing our turn and will require an extension

[Paddy]

what else would one truely expect

/me passes over a ice cold RedBack to Aqua

[Paddy]

Re: Turn Skipping

Originally posted by snoopy369
I believe we should consider amending the turn rule in the following way:


The turn limit is 12 hours from the end of the last team's turn limit, before anyone is skipped.


IE, you get 24 hours from the start of the last person's turn. As the teams were set up to ensure they could play the turns in succession, there should be no problem with teams being unable to play the turn during their time-frame. It also prevents using the turn skipping as a weapon.

Example:
* Team Conquest receives the turn at 06:00 GMT on 18 Feb. They play the turn at 07:15 GMT and send it on to Euphorica.

Euphorica has a 12 hour 'limit' until 19:15, in theory, but is not skipped until 06:00 GMT on 19 Feb (24 hours from the start of Conquest's turn).

They then send it at 20:10 to Team BOH. (on 18 Feb)

Then team BOH has a 'limit' until 8:10 on 19 Feb (12 hours later), 12 hours later (strictly).

(Now, the rule could also be amended to be "12 hours from the 'skip time' of the previous team's turn", which would in this case give BOH until 18:00 GMT to play the turn.)

This rule would ensure the game is always running at a minimum of 3 days/round (12 hours * 6 teams), but there is still a (slight) chance of people getting skipped, as in the (presumably rare) situation like this one. I'm not sure if there are any real situations which would come up like this - but it's still technically possible. To be used aggressively, it would require 2 teams conspiring to break the rules.

Any thoughts?

That is Grand, just Grand indeed, well done Snoop

This clearly allows all teams to cove all bases... and with a back up player or two, then the above idea has a great chance of success.

Will the option where a team knows that they will be late, then emailing or posting to say so, thus giving them extra time, still be available?

[snoopy369]

Well of course. Occasional absences and delays are to be expected, and if a ... um, what do you call it when the one group of people throw sticks and stuff at the other ... oh, yeah, war ... if a war breaks out, then we'll of course allow longer.

Right?

[Dominae]

Not sure if I'm a moderator, but I'll chime in:

I believe what it comes down to is quality versus quantity: does every turn need to be played "just right" (say, with inputs from all players on a team, or with thorough scenario testing), or is a steady/high turn turnover rate more important?

Each team is different. Some teams are run by micromanagers that will not pass on the turn until every Shield is accounted for. Some teams insists on polling every issue. Some teams prefer the roleplaying to the nitty-gritty and just want to see things evolve.

As Uno mentions, 12 hours may not be enough for those teams that care about doing things right. Forcing these teams to play fast may seriously ruin some individual members' fun. 24 hours is certainly more realistic. There's no need to complicate matters with additional rules.

In my experience the worst thing about turn turnover rate is a player/team that is erratic. If all teams collectively find some kind of rhythm then I doubt anyone will much mind if turns take 12 or 24 hours (in fact, with a rhythm it is much easier to schedule turn-playing times and/or discussions which results in faster pace of play).

So, might I put out that this currently it is only turn 4, and that's certainly not enough time to develop a rhythm between six team-pairs. Also might I point out that, with a starter pack of two additional Settlers and and an extra Worker, this game is effectively on turn 40 or more already. And, given the map settings, things are likely to move along quite rapidly. CIV is still a ways off!

/me glares at snoopy369 for taking 2+ days to play his turns in Snow and Ice PBEM

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by Dominae
* Dominae glares at snoopy369 for taking 2+ days to play his turns in Snow and Ice PBEM

Dom's correct as is UnO in the other thread. Sometimes it just takes a little longer. Having been a turnplayer in a few other demogames (one where I was the primary turnplayer for a year and a half, and one where I was the back-up that eventually took over as primary for a few months) I can say that having a back-up does indeed reduce the chances of taking too long, but some teams do indeed need the time to decide depending on their structure.

I imagine Dom was talking specifically about his experience with Gathering Storm (the MM team ) but other teams do that too and sometimes might need input from specific members who are asleep when the rest of the team is awake. It happens.

I think the best solution right now would be to continue with the 12 hour limit, but if a team knows they won't hit that limit then they should post about it and shouldn't be penalized for that (as I think Aqualung just did).

[snoopy369]

I think that the limits were voted on by the teams and approved, so they should be held to. Teams should of course occasionally be allowed to post when they will need a little more time... but it shouldn't be a habit, either.

On that note ... I notice it's been a long time since Conquest in theory got the save - but Ormuzd posted in the EoD TT thread something that I interpret to mean they need a resend of the save (the save wasn't attached), is that correct? Mods, if you don't have a copy of the save either can you investigate?

[Krill]

Yeah, 1889 forgot to attach the save, so I think there is little chance of us playing without a resend...

[OPD]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Mods, if you don't have a copy of the save either can you investigate?

yeah, I sent him an email saying he didn't attach the save

[Paddy]

a great loop hole

ahh it is all good

the poor lad will be kicking himself when he finds out what he did

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Paddy the Scot
the poor lad will be kicking himself when he finds out what he did

I am sure he will. I know I would.

However, it has now been over 26 hours sent 1889 thought he sent the save and over 37 hours since he received it. Is their a way to get in touch with the back-up turn player?

Allowances should be made for honest mistakes, but at some point the game must go on.

Perhaps the team captians and mods can put their heads together to make some kind of policy on this?