Macedon in GA?

[snoopy369]

Do we know if the Macedonians have entered a GA yet? Usually they do at the start (Hoplites vs. Persia), but if they began the game at PEACE with Persia, they may not have.

The reason I ask is, it's in our best interest to maneuver them into a GA as soon as possible, so they are not in a GA by the time they are at war with us (or at minimum have few turns of producing Heavy Cavs during the GA).

[Modo44]

They are at peace and they have only built the Colossus, which didn't cover their Industrial trait (it did cover Seafaring and Commercial, so they're close). So they shouldn't be.

My concern is, how to get them to war with Persia and to stay away from us. They might be slow, but they'd come in numbers.

[snoopy369]

I'm just saying we should encourage war with Persia at the earliest possible opportunity.

Did they have any battles at all? It would only have taken 1 - the first turn they could theoretically have attacked with a hoplite, if I recall correctly (although it takes some doing). Maybe not.

Either way, we can encourage either Persia, or perhaps sooner Scythia to war with them. Scythia is quite happy to war with both Persia and Macedon, from what I recall, so it might be worth encouraging them to war with Scythia at their earliest opportunity.

[Modo44]

Snoopy, if there is no war, they don't get to fight. It's simple.

By "encourage war", do you mean we ally with someone and attack them, or do some diplomatic tricks to get them into a fight? What tricks, 'cause none come to my mind? I'd be against declaring on a strong neigbour and allying with someone against him, unless we have a devastating advantage. Otherwise the War Happiness combined with the GA he enters would hurt us big time.

[ChrisiusMaximus]

Were not ready to meddle with macedon, so this discussion though useful is premature.

The current Emporer already has a specific plan to follow and to get another nation to war with Macedon means an alliance with X against them.

This is not currently in our best interests but maybe when Carthage has been raised and the islands secured.

[snoopy369]

Not necessarily ... A strong Scythia allied to us would mean a likely war between Macedon and Scythia. The same with Persia, although it would have been worth it to check the scenario to make sure the two were set up to hate each other (with the locked war they might not have bothered). Trading techs aggressively with the two might put them in a spot where they can happily go to war with Macedon...

[Modo44]

Now I see. We sell something to Persia. Then we strip Macedonia of it's cash, while leaving them without the tech. They have a load of units, so the AI might demand tribute and declare, should the tribute not come. Macedon declaring on Persia would be the perfect thing for us...

[snoopy369]

Leaving them without MT. I'm sure we can get their cash for other things.

[Modo44]

I'm afraid we can't , not until we get Republic. And by that time the AI might already have some of our bargaining chips.

Probably the only way would be to reverse it and make Persia declare. They have no cash in the 300 BC save, while the Macedonians do. Both lack Military Training, while having Construction and Monarchy. But that would give the Macedonians Military Training.

And there's the problem of Carthage. We should really get the big guys into the war, to make sure they don't ally against us, and to make sure they don't trade with Carthage.

It looks more and more like the Macedonians are a candidate to be our friend and ally. Now that is sick.

[conmcb25]

We should make the macedonians our allies, at least for now. That would definately cover our backs until we are ready to deal with them.

What does everyone think of that?

[Modo44]

It's tricky either way, without the war between Macedonia and Persia (thanks Paddy ). I'd risk the 20 turns alliance. After that we should be well defended wih Legions III. Err, scratch that, we should have some armies with Legions III.

I say do it:

• Alliance with Macedon against Carthaginians, all their 619 gold plus 3gpt - we give Military Training
• Monarchy and World map from Persia - we give Military Training
• Alliance with Egypt against Carthaginians, Construction - we give Military Training.

Eat that, Hannibal.

BTW, put embassies in Celtic and Scythian capitals and try to get them against Carthage as well (Celts are cheap). This should tie many, many resources in useless fighting. By useless I mean: not against Rome.

[Aqualung71]

I don't think there's any urgent need to ally with Macedonia against Carthage, particularly if it's costly to do so (I haven't checked the save). But I can see the benefit in allying with the Celts / Scythia / Egypt against Carthage.

As for 20-turn deals, I'm sure you would all expect me to confirm that I for one, have no qualms about breaking a 20-turn alliance / peace deal against an AI, particularly in a scenario

[Modo44]

Ally with Macedonia, because we have no direct means of getting them into a war elsewhere, and we want AI-AI relations spoiled as much as possible anyway (they're bound to sign peace before 20 turns, due to units unable to reach each other). Need I remind you that Macedonia has numerous Hoplites close to our udefended border. I say, give them direction. And another thing - we have to sell them MT to get that gold anyway.

[joncnunn]

Aren't the Macedonias in this conquest Scientific, Commerical, and Seafaring and therefore likely to be in a GA as soon as they build the GL anyway?

[Modo44]

Macedonians here are Industrious, Commercial and Seafaring. Like I said, they have only Industrious to cover, now that they have built the Colossus.