Should Modo44 be censured?

[Daddy-O]

[Out Of Character]
I hope that everyone understands that this is a bit of role playing. This is a motion of censure for our little roman senate here. This is not to be taken as some sort of official Apolyton censure, nor an attack on Modo44 (if that is his real name).
[ / Out Of Character]

Senator Snoopy369:
You claim that this is not a significant issue. You want to change the rules of the vote after we have started. I question your motives. Did the Senator in question put you up to this? The Wonderous Emperor Conius started this poll, and our beloved Pater Patriae Paddy at the very least seems to be calling for an apology from Senator Modo44. Do you question their wisdom? The strong turn out to this poll, 20 Paces, and the Floor seems to show that this is an issue of import to the Senate. It's just that the current vote shows that drinking at Paddy's is of greater importance. I, myself was torn.

Senator Modo44:
What is this land "Down Under" that you claim Emperor Aqualung71 is from? Is this another insult - a claim that our former Emperor is a barbarian from the Dark Continent south of Carthage?

Fellow Senators:
I agree that motions of censure are serious. These should be carried by some super-majority. 60% seems fair.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Paddy the Scot
Where I come from, the words that you employed do mean exactly this

Ahh, perhaps I do speak a different language then.

But where I come from, it is not a custom to take every not-so-serious statement as a "grave insult", as Senator Aqualung so nicely put it. A bit touchy, the people Down Under, methinks.

[snoopy369]

We also should determine if a "majority" or a "plurality" is needed, or a "two-thirds majority", etc.

Most motions of censure require a high majority, 60% or 2/3 depending on the body, from my recollection. It's relevant in this case, as option 4 seems to have more votes than either of the two.

I would suggest that at least a true majority (50% of the votes cast) is required for this; many abstentions (aka votes for drinks) are indications that this is not a significant matter to the Senate, and thus not meriting a significant action (and an Official Censure is a very significant action, don't doubt that). A 60% majority might be more apt, as most bodys follow, otherwise a simple majority might use the Tyranny of the Majority to Censure all things great and small done by the opposing side.

[snoopy369]

I hardly think an insult is adequate to earn the censure of the Senate. Simply put, the censure of the Senate should be reserved for important matters that affect the safety of the Empire. Perhaps we might make it clear, individually, to Senator Modo that his insult - whether it was intended as taken, or as a lighter one, clearly an insult nonetheless - was inappropriate; but no serious law was broken, the safety of the Realm not endangered by that act.

Choose to censure based on vile misdeeds or negligent play; not over an insult. This is not Kindergarten, where we go crying to the teacher after each petty slight. Perhaps Modo has lost some credibility or favor amongst us, but an official Censure wastes the power and the stature of the Senate.

[Daddy-O]

Now my dear PPP Paddy, who said anything about a crux? This is only a censure. No one is suggesting that we pull out the big wood and march him down the street.

[conmcb25]

I have voted for cocktails as well.

[Paddy]

Originally posted by Modo44
As stated before, I do not feel that I have accused anyone of that. I will not apologize for something I have not done. It saddens me deeply that an Emperor of Rome could be angered so easily and by such an unimportant statement.

This bit is possibly the crux o the whole matter

Where I come from, the words that you employed do mean exactly this

As Consul Aqua point out in a post on this matter, I believe in the first post of the 20 Paces thread

I can find all of these details if required

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Paddy the Scot
In this time of WAR, in this time of great upheaval throughout the known world, we the Senate need to unite our people. As one of a very very small group of former Emperors, at this time only the very two that this matter revolves around, well good Sir, do you think your actions are uniting our people? I fear not at the end of the day

I'd have to agree, if the matter at hand was a question of clothing or how many slaves should join us in the bath. But on my part, it wasn't an unimportant quarrel, as you know. I would find it more damaging not to express my concerns when I find some actions unjustified. I consider it extremely unwise not to question the ones in power. For that matter, why hasn't anyone asked difficult questions of me?

Originally posted by Paddy the Scot
Senator Modo, I also feel that because you have not just apologized for the "Cowardice" accusation, yet continued to make this matter about so many details, that you have earned a small portion of distain throughout the Senate at this time

As stated before, I do not feel that I have accused anyone of that. I will not apologize for something I have not done. It saddens me deeply that an Emperor of Rome could be angered so easily and by such an unimportant statement.

[ChrisiusMaximus]

Wise words from our wise PPP all Hail Senator Paddy the Scot

Ive chosen to abstain too and get drunk with our PPP, although I do wish the Senator could find it within himself to eat a little piece of humble pie and retract his false allegations of cowardice against his fellow Senator Aquavian Lungarius.

[Paddy]

Senator Modo,

I appreciate what you are requesting here, unfortunately these are secret ballots, and no one is to feel that they must state their votes

Yes for your own peace of mind it could be that you will then know where and why people stand on this issue

It is just that some of us may have multiple opinions of you and your actions, and the many many hours of argument that have been put forward for this matter

Sir, I was great saddened that you could accuse Consul Aqua of such actions while he was Emperor of Rome. I found this hard to take in that he was your immediate heir, and had hoped that you, of all people, would give those that followed in your large footsteps a great degree of latitude. Especially after the applause that you received from holding the Initial Reign

Senator Modo, you have served Rome greatly, and I am sure you and your family will continue to serve Rome for many a grand generation.

I believe that you would not have appreciated any of the Senate coming out and making such an accusation after that work you did

In this time of WAR, in this time of great upheaval throughout the known world, we the Senate need to unite our people. As one of a very very small group of former Emperors, at this time only the very two that this matter revolves around, well good Sir, do you think your actions are uniting our people? I fear not at the end of the day

Senator Modo, I also feel that because you have not just apologized for the "Cowardice" accusation, yet continued to make this matter about so many details, that you have earned a small portion of distain throughout the Senate at this time

Well after all is said and done, I have voted for Drinks

for the Glory of Rome

[Modo44]

As this vote is about serious charges against me, I would appreciate the Senators who chose one of the first two options to state that they did so. I would like to know who decided my fate.

As I probably shouldn't be included in this, I voted for the bananas. I like bananas. I could eat 10000 of them any time (except in the next 50 years or so ).

[ormuzd]

let's leave this matter and get some drinks from Paddy

[Paddy]

Long Live the Emperor!!!

Long Live Rome!!!

[conmcb25]

Im just copying and pasting into this poll so go ahead and vote away

3 days to vote

Originally posted by skrobism
I motion that the Senate vote on the Censure below:
-------------------------------------------------------------
It is the Sense of the Roman Senate that -

On 11.03.2004 06:46, in "The Great Roll of Emperors"; and on 11.08.2004 04:30, in the "Roll Of Senators", Senator Modo44 agreed to live by "The Grand Book of Rome - Our Law". Implicit in these laws is the obligation that the Emperor set an example of high moral standards and conduct himself in a manner that fosters respect for the members of the Senate and Emperors - past and present; and Senator Modo44 has egregiously failed in this obligation, and through his actions has violated the trust of the Roman people, lessened their esteem for the offices of the Emperor and Senate and dishonored the offices which they have entrusted to him.

Be it resolved that:

1. The Senator made false statements concerning the honor and courage of Emperor Aquavian Lungarius in order to cover up his previous failed attempts to eradicate the Celts;
-On 11.03.2004 13:01:
"[I] played too short to see the Celts completely eradicated."
-On 11.22.2004 00:41:
Directed at Emperor Aquavian Lungarius, "Though courage is not one of your virtues, methiks (sic)."

2. The Senator made disparaging statements concerning the honor and importance of this Senate body;
On 11.22.2004 12:56:
"Oh, you mean the long term benefit of making the Senate unimportant in directing the Empire?"

3. No person is above the law, and the Senator even though he is a past Emperor himself remains subject to penalties for this conduct, and called for this censure himself;
On 11.24.2004 11:05:
"go ahead with the censure."

4. Senator Modo44, former Emperor of Rome, by his conduct has brought upon himself and fully deserves the censure and condemnation of the Roman people and the Senate; and by his signature on this Resolution, the Senator acknowledges this censure, and unconditionally apologizes to the Roman People, the Senate and the Most Glorious Emperor Aquavian Lungarius.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

It is my hope that by putting this to a vote we can put this ugly issue behind us and proceed with the reign of Emperor Conius.

Long Live Emperor Conius!
Long Live Rome!

PPP Paddy The Scott, does this get put to a poll or an open discussion on the floor?