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How to conciliate a Democracy Game and Feudal Game
This is a discussion thread.
I don't have a solution available to satisfy everybody, and I only post my suggestions. I hope you'll do the same
Basically, the premise of this thread is that we have a problem: quite a few people will only be interested in the DemoGame if it brings an original twist (feudalism), while quite a few other people may lose their interest in a system that is too alien to them. And I don't think any of us wants to have half as few players; we're not too many already...
I think we should look for a system where non-feudalistic people can still get strongly involved in the policy process, (because this involvement is the very reason we play DemoGames), while feudalistic people really get a satisfaction, a tangible benefit from owning land.
My ideas so far:
1. Definitions:
I call "Feudal Lords" those who own land, and use their power as land owners. Feudal lords aren't equal to each other, since the more land they own, the more powerful they are.
I call "The Senate" the will of the people, where everybody counts for one voice, no matter the amount of land they possess. The Senate works very similarily to what we all already know. Lords, of course, are welcome to vote in the Senate among all others.
I think we need a system that gives a significant power both to Feudal Lords and to the Senate
2. Feudal lords are nearly all-powerful when it comes to city management. In a city where they own tiles, lords have as many votes as they have tiles. For Example, say Ghengis has 8/20 tiles around GhengisBurg, while Toraradical has 6/20, and Spiffor has 6/20 too. Ghengis's vote in that city will be 40%, and he'll need either the support of Toraradical (30%) or Spiffor (30%) to vote one an issue. Of course, those three can vote on a mayor, that takes all the small decisions, and to remove him from office if he's incompetent.
Feudal lords are responsible for deciding building queues, mood management, worker actions (action of their workers), and defense of their city.
3. Overall decisions (taxes, diplomacy, science, trade) are taken by the Senate and its elected government. The people remain ultimately responsible of the vision leading our empire.
The Senate can also hold an extraordinary vote, in order to force a specific city to build a specific building (like wonders, Forbidden Palace etc)
4. Some points require the agreement of the Senate and the Lords. I mean, these points require not only an ordinary vote by The Senate, they also need a separate vote by the Lords, where each Lord weights his total amount of land. For example, let's say Ghengis (15 tiles in the whole empire), Toraradical (10 tiles) and Spiffor (6 tiles) take part to this vote; if Tora and Ghengis agree, they'll represent a majority of 25 votes on 31; and if Tora and Spiffor agree, they'll represent a short majority of 16 vote on 31.
What are the points that should be decided in agreement between the Senate and the Lords? I'd say constitution amendments, and more importantly, the rules by which Lords are bound. On top of my head, I can imagine: never build something that will make the city cost more money than it brings; never start an unprovoked war on a foreign civ. I'm sure we'll think of plenty others in time.
5. War and Expansion
This is the tricky part. Basically, the Lords own their units, including settlers. The suestion is: who should manage these units? Each lord individually? Or a Minister of War elected by the Senate?
I don't have a solution available to satisfy everybody, and I only post my suggestions. I hope you'll do the same
Basically, the premise of this thread is that we have a problem: quite a few people will only be interested in the DemoGame if it brings an original twist (feudalism), while quite a few other people may lose their interest in a system that is too alien to them. And I don't think any of us wants to have half as few players; we're not too many already...
I think we should look for a system where non-feudalistic people can still get strongly involved in the policy process, (because this involvement is the very reason we play DemoGames), while feudalistic people really get a satisfaction, a tangible benefit from owning land.
My ideas so far:
1. Definitions:
I call "Feudal Lords" those who own land, and use their power as land owners. Feudal lords aren't equal to each other, since the more land they own, the more powerful they are.
I call "The Senate" the will of the people, where everybody counts for one voice, no matter the amount of land they possess. The Senate works very similarily to what we all already know. Lords, of course, are welcome to vote in the Senate among all others.
I think we need a system that gives a significant power both to Feudal Lords and to the Senate
2. Feudal lords are nearly all-powerful when it comes to city management. In a city where they own tiles, lords have as many votes as they have tiles. For Example, say Ghengis has 8/20 tiles around GhengisBurg, while Toraradical has 6/20, and Spiffor has 6/20 too. Ghengis's vote in that city will be 40%, and he'll need either the support of Toraradical (30%) or Spiffor (30%) to vote one an issue. Of course, those three can vote on a mayor, that takes all the small decisions, and to remove him from office if he's incompetent.
Feudal lords are responsible for deciding building queues, mood management, worker actions (action of their workers), and defense of their city.
3. Overall decisions (taxes, diplomacy, science, trade) are taken by the Senate and its elected government. The people remain ultimately responsible of the vision leading our empire.
The Senate can also hold an extraordinary vote, in order to force a specific city to build a specific building (like wonders, Forbidden Palace etc)
4. Some points require the agreement of the Senate and the Lords. I mean, these points require not only an ordinary vote by The Senate, they also need a separate vote by the Lords, where each Lord weights his total amount of land. For example, let's say Ghengis (15 tiles in the whole empire), Toraradical (10 tiles) and Spiffor (6 tiles) take part to this vote; if Tora and Ghengis agree, they'll represent a majority of 25 votes on 31; and if Tora and Spiffor agree, they'll represent a short majority of 16 vote on 31.
What are the points that should be decided in agreement between the Senate and the Lords? I'd say constitution amendments, and more importantly, the rules by which Lords are bound. On top of my head, I can imagine: never build something that will make the city cost more money than it brings; never start an unprovoked war on a foreign civ. I'm sure we'll think of plenty others in time.
5. War and Expansion
This is the tricky part. Basically, the Lords own their units, including settlers. The suestion is: who should manage these units? Each lord individually? Or a Minister of War elected by the Senate?
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