Fight to death or survive to defeat?

[Spiffor]

We are now facing the Koreans and the Persians. Our Persian neighbours are a fearsome war machine, able to churn out Mech Infantries (12.18.2) for 66 shields, and who have the Hoover Dam. Also, the Persians and the Koreans are the most advanced civilizations in the world, and they can easily bribe other civs in joining the alliance against us. It will not be difficult, given we are probably the most loathed Civ this planet is bearing.

We have no chance whatsoever to win by spaceship victory: we are two eras late, and the AI won’t trade techs with us. We have absolutely no chance to reduce the gap between the advanced civilizations and ours. We also have no chance to win a cultural victory, as our culture is extremely weak compared to others (especially the Egyptians). We have no chance to win a domination / conquest victory because all our troops will be needed at home to survive the Persian onslaught. We have no chance to win a diplomatic victory, because we aren’t populated enough to figure in the vote (13th population, whereas we should be 1st or 2nd). Finally, our histographic victory is very improbable, as it would mean none of the other victories will be reached by the AI in the next 800 years

So, our shot at victory is history now. But another, more urgent question is asked. The war against Persia. Very soon, Persian MIs and tanks will roll on our territory. Our berserkers and pikemen will have a very hard time to fend them off. Our galleys and caravels will be powerless against the fearsome Persian vessels. Our cannons, developed in 6 turns, will be our main chance to scratch Persian troops, but hardly to destroy them.

The question is: do we try to make peace talks with our enemies as soon as they acknowledge our envoys? Do we surrender at any cost against their war machine, to wait for them to claim victory, dishonoured but alive? Or do we fight to the death? Do we refuse peace talks, and die with pride?

This is an important question we the people of Apolyton will have to answer. It is our fate we are talking about, so we shouldn’t be apathetic about it. Discuss!

[Torkkeli]

In my humble viking mind we should make peace for now. Let them suffer later....

[Nimitz]

If we are going to keep playing fight it to the bitter end.

[Paddy]

are we really beaten?

[Nimitz]

Not as of yet, but we are going to be fighting with all we got just to keep them off the island because if they get on it and get a city we are dead.

[ormuzd]

I say peace. Let's try to survive and we may find better days for us.

[Spiffor]

After much hesitation, I say we should fight to the bitter end. The main reason for that is that I fear the interest for the demogame will dwindle even more as our defeat is now obvious, and I think we should end this game quickly, yet in a feat of glory that will make us all proud, and interested.

Besides, we may very well survive to the end, depending how fast the UN gets built. So, let's fight! Let's kill as many Persians as Vikingly possible! Even if we have lost, we will let an eternal memory to the people of the world as the bravest folk this planet has seen!

[theViking]

[SIZE=1] Besides, we may very well survive to the end, depending how fast the UN gets built.

The UN is not in this game.

[joncnunn]

Well, that's one way we definately won't lose by then.

(I don't see us having a realistic shot at capturing the UN considering the techs that implies.)

Originally posted by theViking

The UN is not in this game.

[joncnunn]

I've never heard of the AI in Civ III ever outright refusing tech deals.
Setting a price higher than we can afford, yes.

To reach deals for GPT payments to draw down a surplus over time though, it's needed to lower all sliders to 0 (actually just far enough down where the trade wouldn't cause a deficit), make the deal, and then raise the sliders back up to what they were. And luxaries can be used to discount the price.

Also, techs that have unbuilt wonders should be avoided if possible until they complete.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by joncnunn
I've never heard of the AI in Civ III ever outright refusing tech deals.
Setting a price higher than we can afford, yes.

To reach deals for GPT payments to draw down a surplus over time though, it's needed to lower all sliders to 0 (actually just far enough down where the trade wouldn't cause a deficit), make the deal, and then raise the sliders back up to what they were. And luxaries can be used to discount the price.

Also, techs that have unbuilt wonders should be avoided if possible until they complete.

The French can sell us Banking for our world map and 733 gold. We make 103gpt. I haven't seen them accept any gpt payment. The AI will outright reject any deal where they provide something up front, and get something spread out, if the player is deemed treacherous.

Try for yourself in one of your games: betray a few deals; Then try to make an agreeable tech-for-tech deal with a Civ that knew you prior to the betrayal; offer an extra luxury, or some gpt, without demanding anything new from the other Civ... Suddenly, "they'll never accept such a deal". The AI is hardcoded to that indeed, no matter how interesting the "possibly betrayed" deal is.

(interestingly, when the advisor tells you "they'll never accept such a deal", it is not because your offer is too light: it's because the AI is hardcoded to refuse for some reason. By the same token, when you demand more gpt than they currently make, they'll suddenly "never accept such a deal" for that reason)

[KuriousK724]

5 days ago when i last checked the threads for the viking nation everyone was happy and joyful. come back and we are in a deadly war with persia and everyone is gloom... im not quite understanding whats going on but lets kick the pansies in the balls before we get pummeled into the next apolyton game!

[Nimitz]

The thing is they have MI and we only have muskets.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Even if we have lost, we will let an eternal memory to the people of the world as the bravest folk this planet has seen!

That's bold words for a Frenchie, you know. Sorry, couldn't resist... my apologies.

I read the thread, after long months not caring for any DG, and must say, ugh!, things don't sound too friendly for you guys. This one is probably not to save, except may be for Aeson . Just to be sure, is this PtW Deity? Or Conquests Sid?

[Jon Shafer]

PTW Deity game.