Discussion: War Werious levels

[joncnunn]

I notice that our cities are starting to reach very high levels of war werrious. (55% in Boomtown.)

This is so high that I'd be very hestiant to implement a return home worker policy if it's not reduced before term 8 starts.

What should be do about it?

The following options would reduce it:

1. End the war with Germany & Rome as soon as MPPs can be peacefully & honorally canceled. (5 or 6 turns; might be so late that the govt falls.)

2. Massive Police Station campaign. (Bonus, it reduces corruption & waste, improving production and boosting the economy in the longrun. The disadvantage is it's going to need significant upfront cash.

3. Switch to either Monarchy or Communism. It would elimate War Werriousness, but corruption and waste would increase compared to present under either governement, leading to science suffering.

[Spiffor]

I think we can imagine stopping our research for a few turns to get loads of money (2203 per turn in 1320 AB) to rush police stations (which will be a good investment in peace time anyways).
Or we can simply raise the luxury slider. It will be a bit costly, but nothing unbearable.

[Arnelos]

Re: Discussion: War Werious levels

Originally posted by joncnunn
1. End the war with Germany & Rome as soon as MPPs can be peacefully & honorally canceled. (5 or 6 turns; might be so late that the govt falls.)

This is indeed the plan.

2. Massive Police Station campaign. (Bonus, it reduces corruption & waste, improving production and boosting the economy in the longrun. The disadvantage is it's going to need significant upfront cash.

This is also something I believe the current DM (Spiffor) and the new DM (yourself) should establish as a priority.

3. Switch to either Monarchy or Communism. It would elimate War Werriousness, but corruption and waste would increase compared to present under either governement, leading to science suffering.

Switching the government type, as you well know, it completely out of the question. Ending the wars is the FAR preferable alternative. We MUST maintain our technology lead, now that we finally HAVE one.

Besides, it's party policy for our party to fight any attempt to change the government type I don't think any of us would have a particularly difficulty having a period of peaceful development, either

[Aro]

Re: Discussion: War Werious levels

Originally posted by joncnunn

2. Massive Police Station campaign. (Bonus, it reduces corruption & waste, improving production and boosting the economy in the longrun. The disadvantage is it's going to need significant upfront cash.

How much ca$h? Just an estimate.

Originally posted by joncnunn

3. Switch to either Monarchy or Communism. It would elimate War Werriousness, but corruption and waste would increase compared to present under either governement, leading to science suffering.

I never changed to communism before...
Could someone make some calculations?
How many turns until the end of Germany? Amount of waste, corruption, etc, compared with our production today... Stuff like that. There's a lot of folks here with a CPU installed in the brain... Come on guys! Show us what you can do!

Hmmm... Real communism... Prisons, gulags, the KGB instead the Intelligence Agency… I can’t wait!
Maybe Tassadar come back!

Originally posted by joncnunn

1. End the war with Germany & Rome as soon as MPPs can be peacefully & honorally canceled. (5 or 6 turns; might be so late that the govt falls.)

Yeah, right… That one. Well, if you wish… sigh!

[joncnunn]

I agree that I wouldn't want #3 to happen and think we should do everything we can to minimize the chance of it happening.

When WW gets too high, there is a chance of a revolt happening even with loads of luxaries. (It happened in one of my games)

I think the danger level is when there's 50%+ of the unhappiness due to WW (even after Police Stations & Womens Sufferage)

On the luxary slider, it can be used to maintaign order, but in my experence it won't prevent a collapse of governement)

Yes, Police Stations have moved up on my list ahead of Hospitals should there still be WW when the first term 8 chat takes place.

[Shiber]

Police stations aren't really necessary at this point. Now that we have 8 luxuries again, we don't have to worry about war weariness in cities that don't have a hospital yet (assuming that they have a marketplace to make full use of the luxuries, which Boom Town hadn't).
Still, we should limit our research spendings (as we are now the undisputed leaders in research) and spend more money on police stations, which are needed anyway.

Btw, speaking of governments, Rome is still in anarchy, but Germany has switched to Communism recently. Looks like the red shirts have finally taken charge.

[Meshelic]

Re: Discussion: War Werious levels

Originally posted by joncnunn

3. Switch to either Monarchy or Communism. It would elimate War Werriousness, but corruption and waste would increase compared to present under either governement, leading to science suffering.

I would just like to point out to Arnelos that it was not any ALP member that brought this up as a serious possibility....

*sigh* With the Communists overthrowing the democracies in Rome and Germany, we can count on the Axis of Evil powers falling behind in the science race, but will try to make up for it with a much larger military.

Germany is nearly gone, 1-2 more turnchats and it will be all over for them.

However, the Roman front has been largely uneventful for them and us, albeit a few skirmishes and the capture of Brundisium and as I understand the Romans (outside of their anarchy status) are bolstering their military forces.

Ending the war with Rome now, will yes, satisfy our population. But Rome will invade again, quite possibly with greater forces at Caesar's disposal.

[joncnunn]

This will greatly decrease the value of most German cities; as they are going to be pop-rushed mercilessly.

Originally posted by Shiber

Btw, speaking of governments, Rome is still in anarchy, but Germany has switched to Communism recently. Looks like the red shirts have finally taken charge.

[Aro]

[roleplay]

If we can stand those turns of war (5-6, as said by joncnunn) without revolts, it's ok. Can we stand so long? Than we'll make peace. Good for the Nation. Limiting our research, making some money, rushing some police stations and everything's ok.
After that, we'll need 20 turns (I'm not sure. More? Less?) to go to war again without war weariness...
In the old days, war and honor used to walk together. No more glory, no more battles, no more leaders... Just money, luxuries, pollution and politicians.

Ok, builders... It's your time now!

wait till the panzers start to come...

[/roleplay]

Just kidding. A combo of Police Stations, luxury slider and less money to research will do the trick, for some time.

[Kloreep]

If the war ends in 5-6 turns, I'm not so sure about the value of building police stations; at least, not in cities near the Palace & FP. By the time they would be built, the war's end would only be a few turns away.

However, if we wanted to stop research and do a massive rush campaign, that might work...

[realpolitic]

If the war lasts 5-6 turns, how about building workers in the worst cities? We can always move them back, building Police Stations the normal way for our next war. Raising the luxury slider is a good idea for the moderately angry cities.

[Spiffor]

It would be highly wasteful to build workers right now, whether "worst" cities mean the unhappiest (12 pop), or the least efficient :
In the unhappiest cities, many shields are produced. SInce we need at least a turn to build a 10-shields worker, a city which produces 30 shields would simply waste 2/3 of its production by doing this. This production can be used to build a marketplace or police station.
In the least productive cities, we should wait for War Weariness to end before integrating the workers we already have in great quantity. Instead of making them lose population, this population should be used to build temples or marketplaces.

Overall, we already have too many workers, so we shouldn't build more ; it would be counterproductive.

[E_T]

We can still build Colosemums in most of our cities, that will Take some of the unhappieness load off for short time.

E_T

[E_T]

DO NOT FORGET that we MIGHT be having Japan Declair War on us. If that happens, we will get a Happiness bonus from it (even though we will lose 1 of our Luxes).

E_T

[MrWhereItsAt]

I take it that we aare intending to destroy Germany or at least stop their oil supply completely before we are done with them in order to prevent them getting Panzers? If so, then how close to this goal are we? I realise we are near taking their last supply (if we haven't done so already), but what about the possibility of them getting it from other civs?

If we are to prevent this, then we are either near that end or need to go to war with them again later. If the latter, then Police Stations should be crucial - ready for the next war to completely blunt their war machine.